How true is this video? (Counter steering)

[matt6950]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUWViat ... e=youtu.be

Warning video contains a crash scene at the start of it.

When the video says steer right to turn left. surly the wheel is then turning to the right? that to me suggests the bike is going to turn right?

Just trying to better under stand cornering on bikes as that's something that i'm not to good at. and has caused both my crashes loll...

[fq-craigus]

Very true. You steer one way and the bike wants to tip the other way because of momentum ect. You use countersteering to aim the bike in the right direction.

Have a look onyoutube for it there is many vids, twist of the wrist is a cheesy but very very good vid.

Its a tad hard for anyone to explain to a degree that people understand in words.

[Tankbag]

Push on the right bar to go right, push on the left bar to go left is the way I first memorised it.

Byetheway, you've opened a can of worms

[matt6950]

Yes I probably have opened a can of worms.

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two more videos I just watched.

From what I see from the 1st video above is you don't use countersteering for the whole turn? you use it to just get into the turn? all very confusing. I find it difficult to comprehend the bike will turn a different way to the way the front tier is pointing.

[BikerMooFromMars]

Yes I probably have opened a can of worms.

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two more videos I just watched.

From what I see from the 1st video above is you don't use countersteering for the whole turn? you use it to just get into the turn? all very confusing. I find it difficult to comprehend the bike will turn a different way to the way the front tier is pointing.

 

Just a quick post, I've not watched your vids yet.

Basically I learnt from this vid and a few others:

Just practice it on your own, on a quiet road. Go to turn right and push the left bar gently and vice versa. You won't understand til you do it yourself. It helped me to learn and understand how to do it.

Hopefully this thread won't go too nuts too quickly!

Enjoy!

[Mr Fro]

However... If you watch the vid, you'll see the guy grabs a handful of front brake the instant he has his troubles. This is what causes the bike to stand up, wallow about and run wide. Before that, he already tightened his turn a bit.

[Joeman]

Just try it in a straight line over about 20mph. Wiggle the bars and see which way it turns.

[fullscreenaging]

You automatically countersteer and have been doing so the second you learned to ride a bike when you were a kid.

[ninjabob]

You automatically countersteer and have been doing so the second you learned to ride a bike when you were a kid.

 

Exactly - don't dwell on this subject. You are almost certainly already doing it instinctively.

[RantMachine]

Start off small, don't try practicing it on country roads with crappy surfaces and tight bends

[someone]

This is my understanding of how it makes sense.

At low speeds when you turn the handlebars the back wheel pushes forward onto the front wheel, which rolls it in whatever direction it is pointing. All as you would expect.

But as speed increases, the bike becomes more unstable with the wheels out of alignment. So with more pushing force it instead loses balance and falls over.

By leaning the bike, various forces cause it to turn in the direction of the lean. This means you can use that "falling over" to get the bike into a leaned position to turn that way instead.

When you turn the handlebars to the left, for example, the front wheel is positioned so that the front of it (the furthest part from the bike frame) is sticking out to the left and the back (nearest the bike frame) to the right.

The bike will fall down the shortest, easiest, direction, so along the side of the wheel nearest the bike, it will fall to the right.

So with the handlebars turned to the left, the bike falls to the right. And so as it is leaned to the right it turns to the right.

As you say, you only need to do this to get into the turn. If you keep the front wheel out of alignment like that it will keep falling and eventually completely fall over.

But the gyroscopic effect also means the bike will try to straighten back up, so you still need to keep the pressure on the handlebars to counteract that effect and remain in the lean. To come out of the turn release the pressure and the bike will sort itself out.

Obviously you only turn the handlebars a small amount compared to what you would do for a slow speed turn.

As I say, that is only my how I understand it, from working it through myself from YouTube videos and forum posts.

Sadly it seems the only explanations I ever found though were either anecdotal (how it works but with no explanation of why) or required understanding the physics in effect. Nothing in a simple layman form like the above.

So I could have some parts technically wrong, but it is an explanation that made sense of it all to me. Not that it makes too much difference because you do it instinctively anyway. I am just someone who needs to know why things work to be able to understand them, and this gives me that.

But then the only thing I am worse at than going in straight lines is corners, and do not think I have ever consciously counter steered to turn anyway.

In a turn, though, I do intentionally push on the bar to the inside of the turn to tighten it on occasions. Presumably this is where knowing about counter-steering actually helps, as you can then use it in that way to control the bike rather than coming off the throttle. Which I wrongly still do most of the time.

[matt6950]

Thanks guys. I played around with this on the way home from my MOT. I found getting into the correct road position and turning easier when doing this. the corners I was slowing right down for I found easier to get round faster. I'm not going to get too cocky with it. I'm still going to take things slow and safe.

But I defiantly felt the effects of it my self out on the bike today. and they do defiantly help.

I just have one question. a few people say you can counter steer though the whole turn. some people say you only do it to get into the turn? or is it one of those where you can actually do both?

[Joeman]

Bikes are actually very stable when moving. The gyroscopic effect from the wheels (and engine) means that a bike's natural state is upright and in a straight line, so If you let go of the bars, this is what it will do. This is why you sometimes see racing bikes riding off by themselves when the rider has fallen off - basically bikes don't need a rider to go in a straight line.

If you want the bike to turn, you need to upset the equilibrium by applying force to one of the handlebars.

When you remove the external force, the bike will attempt to return to a state of equilibrium (upright and straight line).

The equilibrium state resists change, so to break the equilibrium and get the bike to establish a turn, requires more force than to maintain the turn.

[fullscreenaging]

+1

[klingelton]

This is amazing. First coutersteering thread that hasn't degenerated into "countersteering isn't a real thing!"

I think it's become generally accepted that countersteering is a thing. Those who say it isn't are wrong!

It's definitely worth learning positive input into the direction of the bike rather than allowing your subconscious to modify your direction as it's also true to say that subconsciously, you will countersteer.

It makes the swerve on your mod 2 a doddle knowing about it.

[RantMachine]

This is amazing. First coutersteering thread that hasn't degenerated into "countersteering isn't a real thing!"

I think it's become generally accepted that countersteering is a thing. Those who say it isn't are wrong!

 

Oh god, NOW you've jinxed it...

[klingelton]

Yea, I thought I might have!

[Joeman]

Actually, it shouldn't be called counter steering. It should just be called steering...

[RantMachine]

[Mr Fro]

You see it all the time. All the time.

[Guest]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/motobiker/nothingtoadd.gif~original

[fullscreenaging]

lol

[matt6950]

Thanks guys I'm back to riding my bike to and from work again now and I have re-gained a lot of my confidence today.

I'm finding a few things a lot easier with the "counter" steering method. turns that you can easily get round at about 30-40mph i was finding my self slowing right down to take them, Yeah i may have felt safe when going round the corner but it was just an accident waiting to happen. but with counter steering I get round them fine. I am trying to make it so counter steering is both a reflex thing and something i will do when i think about it too. lane control just most control when moving is easier with counter steering.

it's one of those until your on the bike and try it, it doesn't make much sense.Once you have tried it your like oh i understand now lol.

[Joeman]

I really dont understand why its not taught in CBT?

[NearOn]

But it's something we all do since riding a push bike from an early age like someone else has said. I've always understood it to be push left to go left and push right to go right, the sharper the corner. The more I think about it the more complicated it becomes so just best to ride and feel it work.