Metropolitan Police - use of tactical contact on mopeds

[SometimesSansEngine]

The guy in the video is an ass, should have just asked whether he was being detained and walked off when he was told no. Yes he clearly wanted some footage.

Ah, three and a half minutes in and he finally asks that question, then carries on

[Bender]

Whoops

https://apple.news/AE-52XR37RzanuVVe7BnDGg

 

And the world's gone mad

 

Why? There were clear failings by the Police. Does the family deserve compensation? f**k no. But were the Police found to be acting outside of their training and standard procedures? Yes.

 

The world is full of ifs and busts, the little shit shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, he paid the price of the decisions he took, if he had been left to carry on and taken our a family at a bus stop no doubt the officer would have been in the wrong then. Your asking officers to look back at decisions retrospectively it's an impossible task, ohhh no I'm ending pursuit cause I'm 7miles over my allowance, no licence, failing to stop, speeding, Un insured, drugs in system I have no sympathy.

[Joe85]

And the world's gone mad

 

Why? There were clear failings by the Police. Does the family deserve compensation? f**k no. But were the Police found to be acting outside of their training and standard procedures? Yes.

 

The world is full of ifs and busts, the little shit shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, he paid the price of the decisions he took, if he had been left to carry on and taken our a family at a bus stop no doubt the officer would have been in the wrong then. Your asking officers to look back at decisions retrospectively it's an impossible task, ohhh no I'm ending pursuit cause I'm 7miles over my allowance, no licence, failing to stop, speeding, Un insured, drugs in system I have no sympathy.

 

Sorry but that isn’t the case, as much as you want it to be. Sensationalising it doesn’t change the fact that the officer acted outside of what he was permitted to do in addition to failings that may have ended the chase. They know what they are and aren’t allowed to do. As a result the family are awarded damages. I don’t believe the officer has faced charges or been reprimanded. Seems the small outcome matches the small mistake by the police.

“He chose to speed off, not to stop and to continue to drive as he did,” she said.

“It also has to be remembered that he only held a provisional licence, did not wear a seat belt, and had traces of cocaine in his system.”

But she ruled that Mrs Seddon and Ms Morgan — who was carrying her partner’s child at the time — were owed compensation due to the police force being “in breach of its operational duty”.

The judge said the pursuing police driver was only trained for “standard responses”, and was not authorised to go more than 20mph above the speed limit but went as fast as 95mph during the pursuit.

She ruled that the officer “failed to perform at the level required”, including failing to pass on key information to his control room which might have ended the chase.

The judge also criticised another police driver who positioned his almost-stationary car in the nearside lane of the A33.

“No one knew the vehicle was there so the control room could not factor in its presence when considering whether the pursuit should be continued,” said the judge.

She found that the positioning of the police car was “foreseeably dangerous”, and there was “a realistic prospect” the fatal crash would have been avoided if it had not been there.

When you read that, I find it hard to get annoyed at the outcome. Yes he was a twat, yes he killed himself and yes the Police dropped the ball.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Joe85

[Joe85]

Or is it just that even the judges are scared to do the right thing if there is no president.

Some one makes a complaint or appeal and in todays world it must be investigated.

Your dog bites Burgler (with hammer and crowbar and mask on face). in your unlocked back yard. Who's fault is it?

Once upon a time the Burgler would not complain as he would of been fitted up for last 3 burglaries in area.

Now your poor dog is on death Row.

Some one give the police some respect, if this is how they are treated and people act outside a school.

https://youtu.be/08j-e6hc3Vc

This country is a sad place.

 

The guy behind the camera is obviously a dick, but how aggressive is that officer? He is the one that escalated the situation by acting aggressive and petulant, follwoing this twerp around. And for what? Because someone said this nobhead said some mean words?

Respect is earned.

 

Bollox .

 

Because?

[Six30]

The guy behind the camera is obviously a dick, but how aggressive is that officer? He is the one that escalated the situation by acting aggressive and petulant, follwoing this twerp around. And for what? Because someone said this nobhead said some mean words?

Respect is earned.

 

Bollox .

 

Because?

 

The bloke on the bike is an obvious twat .

[Joe85]

Bollox .

 

Because?

 

The the bloke on the bike is an obvious twat .

Agreed, but he didn’t approach the officer.

[Six30]

Because?

 

The the bloke on the bike is an obvious twat .

Agreed, but he didn’t approach the officer.

 

The copper approached him cause the teacher had called him cause he was being gobby to her and scared some kids cause he had a mask on .... Thought the copper kept his cool and was doing his job , twat on bike just needed poking in the eye .

[Joe85]

The the bloke on the bike is an obvious twat .

Agreed, but he didn’t approach the officer.

 

The copper approached him cause the teacher had called him cause he was being gobby to her and scared some kids cause he had a mask on .... Thought the copper kept his cool and was doing his job , twat on bike just needed poking in the eye .

 

Isn’t that what the UKIP brigade call a “snowflake”?

“He said some less than nice words and is wearing a mask” (that no one complained about)

The Officers unwarranted aggression and intimidation tactics backfired. The whole thing escalated in to an unnecessary back and forth and in the end they both just look like petulant twats.

[Six30]

Agreed, but he didn’t approach the officer.

 

The copper approached him cause the teacher had called him cause he was being gobby to her and scared some kids cause he had a mask on .... Thought the copper kept his cool and was doing his job , twat on bike just needed poking in the eye .

 

Isn’t that what the UKIP brigade call a “snowflake”?

“He said some less than nice words and is wearing a mask” (that no one complained about)

The Officers unwarranted aggression and intimidation tactics backfired. The whole thing escalated in to an unnecessary back and forth and in the end they both just look like petulant twats.

 

You call that aggression

[Bender]

[mention]Joe85[/mention] Yes I read it all and I still have no sympathy, a small mistake, police are asked to make decisions all the time, the only reason the officer and the force were put in that situation was down to the actions of the deceased.

[Joe85]

@Yes I read it all and I still have no sympathy, a small mistake, police are asked to make decisions all the time, the only reason the officer and the force were put in that situation was down to the actions of the deceased.

 

Don’t confuse my lack of outrage as having sympathy.

Absolutely not. But they are trained for these situations and either acted outside of the training, or acted negligently or both. It’s not really up for dispute to be fair. They did, it’s a fact. Is a compo claim legitimate? Legally yes. Morally, of course not.

[Joeman]

Why? There were clear failings by the Police. Does the family deserve compensation? f**k no. But were the Police found to be acting outside of their training and standard procedures? Yes.

 

The world is full of ifs and busts, the little shit shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, he paid the price of the decisions he took, if he had been left to carry on and taken our a family at a bus stop no doubt the officer would have been in the wrong then. Your asking officers to look back at decisions retrospectively it's an impossible task, ohhh no I'm ending pursuit cause I'm 7miles over my allowance, no licence, failing to stop, speeding, Un insured, drugs in system I have no sympathy.

 

Sorry but that isn’t the case, as much as you want it to be. Sensationalising it doesn’t change the fact that the officer acted outside of what he was permitted to do in addition to failings that may have ended the chase. They know what they are and aren’t allowed to do. As a result the family are awarded damages. I don’t believe the officer has faced charges or been reprimanded. Seems the small outcome matches the small mistake by the police.

“He chose to speed off, not to stop and to continue to drive as he did,” she said.

“It also has to be remembered that he only held a provisional licence, did not wear a seat belt, and had traces of cocaine in his system.”

But she ruled that Mrs Seddon and Ms Morgan — who was carrying her partner’s child at the time — were owed compensation due to the police force being “in breach of its operational duty”.

The judge said the pursuing police driver was only trained for “standard responses”, and was not authorised to go more than 20mph above the speed limit but went as fast as 95mph during the pursuit.

She ruled that the officer “failed to perform at the level required”, including failing to pass on key information to his control room which might have ended the chase.

The judge also criticised another police driver who positioned his almost-stationary car in the nearside lane of the A33.

“No one knew the vehicle was there so the control room could not factor in its presence when considering whether the pursuit should be continued,” said the judge.

She found that the positioning of the police car was “foreseeably dangerous”, and there was “a realistic prospect” the fatal crash would have been avoided if it had not been there.

When you read that, I find it hard to get annoyed at the outcome. Yes he was a twat, yes he killed himself and yes the Police dropped the ball.

 

Ok so where do you draw the line??

Police aren't allowed to enter private property without permission, but they regularly do to catch criminals.

Sign says "don't walk on the grass" so the police have to stay on the path as the criminals run away across the grass...

If the police have to abide by the same rules as everyone else, then all a criminal has to do to evade capture is do something that an ordinary member of the public is not allowed to do. That's a stupid situation to be in.

[onesea]

@Yes I read it all and I still have no sympathy, a small mistake, police are asked to make decisions all the time, the only reason the officer and the force were put in that situation was down to the actions of the deceased.

 

Don’t confuse my lack of outrage as having sympathy.

Absolutely not. But they are trained for these situations and either acted outside of the training, or acted negligently or both. It’s not really up for dispute to be fair. They did, it’s a fact. Is a compo claim legitimate? Legally yes. Morally, of course not.

 

IMHO the police need to be given a little discretion, every kid on a bike now knows the chasing car is most likely to stop if he exceeds the speed limit by 20mph. So like the kids who ride the bikes round here, they open it up a bit bye bye police end of chase kids comes back next day... The traffic police who are qualified further probably have better and bigger fish to fry.

I hope the the coppers involved where not charged and only had to reflect on their actions and how to do it better next time without breaking rules which should be more guidelines IMHO. If something goes wrong and they are exceeding them they should justify their actions, not punished unless required. Lots to reflect on Placement of car etc etc then the police live in a dynamic world and as such cannot expect things to go within training every time.

As for the compensation given that's just crazy IMHO

The guy on the school gate, does not matter who you are I hope that people on school gates:

1) Filming children,

2) Hanging round with faces covered, other than for religious purposes,

3) Acting aggressively,

Are approached by school staff. If they react inappropriately I hope the school do call the police, I am pleased they got an officer there. I believe the copper held his cool very well but feel the guy should of got a caution.

Then maybe I am old fashioned and believe in removing my hat/ lid when I enter a shop (one exception being lid at service station on motorbike paying for fuel).

If a policeman asks me to stop I will, make the time to stop and follow there reasonable requests. That would include removing a facial covering at the school, not filming children at school gates.

The police earn my respect for doing the job they do, and I believe british police deserve that respect. I am not certain why some on here have such low opinion of the police I am saddened by how many generally have such a low opinion.

I can understand given the rules the police work by and attitude of some, sitting in a van at the side of the road taking photos of the easy targets driving passed. It would be attractive, the more challenging cases give to much stress!

[SometimesSansEngine]

Ok so where do you draw the line??

Police aren't allowed to enter private property without permission, but they regularly do to catch criminals.

Sign says "don't walk on the grass" so the police have to stay on the path as the criminals run away across the grass...

If the police have to abide by the same rules as everyone else, then all a criminal has to do to evade capture is do something that an ordinary member of the public is not allowed to do. That's a stupid situation to be in.

 

Well, just as a technical point, you're right that they're not allowed to enter private property without permission.

But they can without a warrant if for certain reasons (such as in pursuit of someone they believe has committed or about to commit a serious crime, sorting out a disturbance etc). Those boundaries exist, and if entering a property they need to be able to justify it.

I don't think boundaries are necessarily a bad thing, and would prefer police are well trained to do the job they do. So in the example of a pursuit or tactical contact, I want the officer to be as skilled as possible and I think it's our duty to give them that skill and training. That will also allow them to do a better job for us.

Let's not forget that many officers have barely more training to drive a car than we've had (and why you may occasionally see a youtube video with a copper in a police car making up bits of the highway code like "it's illegal to filter on a bike"). Do we instantly want them involved in all high speed pursuits? Personally I'd say no, I want them to be trained in advanced driving to do so. Not because I want to be a pain, but because I want them to quickly and safely stop criminals.

[Joe85]

The world is full of ifs and busts, the little shit shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, he paid the price of the decisions he took, if he had been left to carry on and taken our a family at a bus stop no doubt the officer would have been in the wrong then. Your asking officers to look back at decisions retrospectively it's an impossible task, ohhh no I'm ending pursuit cause I'm 7miles over my allowance, no licence, failing to stop, speeding, Un insured, drugs in system I have no sympathy.

 

Sorry but that isn’t the case, as much as you want it to be. Sensationalising it doesn’t change the fact that the officer acted outside of what he was permitted to do in addition to failings that may have ended the chase. They know what they are and aren’t allowed to do. As a result the family are awarded damages. I don’t believe the officer has faced charges or been reprimanded. Seems the small outcome matches the small mistake by the police.

“He chose to speed off, not to stop and to continue to drive as he did,” she said.

“It also has to be remembered that he only held a provisional licence, did not wear a seat belt, and had traces of cocaine in his system.”

But she ruled that Mrs Seddon and Ms Morgan — who was carrying her partner’s child at the time — were owed compensation due to the police force being “in breach of its operational duty”.

The judge said the pursuing police driver was only trained for “standard responses”, and was not authorised to go more than 20mph above the speed limit but went as fast as 95mph during the pursuit.

She ruled that the officer “failed to perform at the level required”, including failing to pass on key information to his control room which might have ended the chase.

The judge also criticised another police driver who positioned his almost-stationary car in the nearside lane of the A33.

“No one knew the vehicle was there so the control room could not factor in its presence when considering whether the pursuit should be continued,” said the judge.

She found that the positioning of the police car was “foreseeably dangerous”, and there was “a realistic prospect” the fatal crash would have been avoided if it had not been there.

When you read that, I find it hard to get annoyed at the outcome. Yes he was a twat, yes he killed himself and yes the Police dropped the ball.

 

Ok so where do you draw the line??

Police aren't allowed to enter private property without permission, but they regularly do to catch criminals.

Sign says "don't walk on the grass" so the police have to stay on the path as the criminals run away across the grass...

If the police have to abide by the same rules as everyone else, then all a criminal has to do to evade capture is do something that an ordinary member of the public is not allowed to do. That's a stupid situation to be in.

 

Remind me why are we drawing a line? The Police operated outside of the guidance, training and rules set for them as a force. That’s a well drawn line right there.

Police aren't allowed to enter private property without permission, but they regularly do to catch criminals.

Under a warrant or where the officers feel the is a threat to life or a crime in progress. Seems fair enough to me.

Sign says "don't walk on the grass" so the police have to stay on the path as the criminals run away across the grass...

Are you suggesting the Police just be able enter any property without any kind of controls or rules about and how?

If the police have to abide by the same rules as everyone else, then all a criminal has to do to evade capture is do something that an ordinary member of the public is not allowed to do. That's a stupid situation to be in.

But they don’t, they have rules that THEY have to operate within. Anything outside of that is illegal/negligent - which turned out to be the case here.

[Joe85]

@Yes I read it all and I still have no sympathy, a small mistake, police are asked to make decisions all the time, the only reason the officer and the force were put in that situation was down to the actions of the deceased.

 

Don’t confuse my lack of outrage as having sympathy.

Absolutely not. But they are trained for these situations and either acted outside of the training, or acted negligently or both. It’s not really up for dispute to be fair. They did, it’s a fact. Is a compo claim legitimate? Legally yes. Morally, of course not.

 

IMHO the police need to be given a little discretion, every kid on a bike now knows the chasing car is most likely to stop if he exceeds the speed limit by 20mph. So like the kids who ride the bikes round here, they open it up a bit bye bye police end of chase kids comes back next day... The traffic police who are qualified further probably have better and bigger fish to fry.

I hope the the coppers involved where not charged and only had to reflect on their actions and how to do it better next time without breaking rules which should be more guidelines IMHO. If something goes wrong and they are exceeding them they should justify their actions, not punished unless required. Lots to reflect on Placement of car etc etc then the police live in a dynamic world and as such cannot expect things to go within training every time.

As for the compensation given that's just crazy IMHO

Then it just becomes an issue of training budgets and numbers of officers trained rather than a change in the rules to allow untrained officers to speculate on maneuvers and or policing tactics they are untrained to carry out. Should we really be relaxing the rules because of austerity? That would be outrageous, in my opinion.

 

The guy on the school gate, does not matter who you are I hope that people on school gates:

1) Filming children,

2) Hanging round with faces covered, other than for religious purposes,

3) Acting aggressively,

Are approached by school staff. If they react inappropriately I hope the school do call the police, I am pleased they got an officer there. I believe the copper held his cool very well but feel the guy should of got a caution.

For waht? The Police can only caution you for a named offence. Once again, as much of a cock as this guy is, his only crime (pun intended) was wearing a mask that another member of the public didn't like. He only filmed when approached by the Officer (also filming) The officer tries to intimidate the cock by entering his personal space in an aggressive manner, rasining his voice and making unreasonable assumptions. It escalated a situation that wasn't present until the officer decided to force one.

 

Then maybe I am old fashioned and believe in removing my hat/ lid when I enter a shop (one exception being lid at service station on motorbike paying for fuel).

If a policeman asks me to stop I will, make the time to stop and follow there reasonable requests. That would include removing a facial covering at the school, not filming children at school gates.

The police earn my respect for doing the job they do, and I believe british police deserve that respect. I am not certain why some on here have such low opinion of the police I am saddened by how many generally have such a low opinion.

I can understand given the rules the police work by and attitude of some, sitting in a van at the side of the road taking photos of the easy targets driving passed. It would be attractive, the more challenging cases give to much stress!

 

Maybe you are , or maybe i am being unreasonable, i don't know, but i trust the Police as much as i do any stranger. If you want my respect you need to earn it.

[Bender]

The guy with the mask should have been tassered.

Entering his private f**king space give me a break, if he wants private space I suggest he stays in his house.

[onesea]

i don't know, but i trust the Police as much as i do any stranger. If you want my respect you need to earn it.

 

Well that says more about you than this debate...

[Via]

Shouldn't it be the other way and respect is given to everyone (not just police) unless they give a reason not to? That's how I was brought up.

[Joeman]

Shouldn't it be the other way and respect is given to everyone (not just police) unless they give a reason not to? That's how I was brought up.

 

Exactly. Whereas the Cyclists guy is disrespectful and cocky from the moment he sees the police officer. He clearly has issues with authority and women so uses his powers of shoutyness to fight them.

I bet he either has a criminal record already or has something to hide. No other reason to get that defensive.

[Via]

I bet he either has a criminal record already or has something to hide. No other reason to get that defensive.

 

Or more commonly now is just simply a twat

Seems to be a trend now of people that have nothing to hide and not doing anything wrong want to goad an argument especially to record and show how they are fighting for their freedom and have got one up on the police state authority's.

I wonder if it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling at night.

[Joeman]

I bet he either has a criminal record already or has something to hide. No other reason to get that defensive.

 

Or more commonly now is just simply a twat

Seems to be a trend now of people that have nothing to hide and not doing anything wrong want to goad an argument especially to record and show how they are fighting for their freedom and have got one up on the police state authority's.

I wonder if it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling at night.

Would love to put him in a situation where he needed the help of the police, watch how polite he would be to the attending officer, then send the same copper from the video in to take over... Get that on camera and we'd all get a warm fuzzy feeling.

[Via]

I bet he either has a criminal record already or has something to hide. No other reason to get that defensive.

 

Or more commonly now is just simply a twat

Seems to be a trend now of people that have nothing to hide and not doing anything wrong want to goad an argument especially to record and show how they are fighting for their freedom and have got one up on the police state authority's.

I wonder if it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling at night.

Would love to put him in a situation where he needed the help of the police, watch how polite he would be to the attending officer, then send the same copper from the video in to take over... Get that on camera and we'd all get a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

He would probably still be a twat knowing that as much as they would love to tell to take up sex and travel they will have to sit there and act professionally while they take his report of how a car overtook him and only left a 10 foot gap and disgusted how the police never do anything and are too busy hassling people acting suspiciously outside schools rather than doing real police work.

[NeilM]

the judges are clearly taking brown envelopes from someone to make these decisions

 

Or is it just that even the judges are scared to do the right thing if there is no president.

Some one makes a complaint or appeal and in todays world it must be investigated.

Your dog bites Burgler (with hammer and crowbar and mask on face). in your unlocked back yard. Who's fault is it?

Once upon a time the Burgler would not complain as he would of been fitted up for last 3 burglaries in area.

Now your poor dog is on death Row.

Some one give the police some respect, if this is how they are treated and people act outside a school.

https://youtu.be/08j-e6hc3Vc

This country is a sad place.

I'd happily knock him off his bike and reverse over him.

 

Bloody hell....

Our coppers would have knacked his entitled priveledged arse all over the county....lol

[Via]

Ok just got round to watching first minute of the video and what an absolute twat (not first word I thought of).

A police officer walking up to you to talk to you is not invading your personal space they are approaching you.

They have the right to talk to you and ask you questions.

They do not work for you or the public in general, they work for the queen and crown.

I'm sorry but anyone that thinks that is acceptable behavior and he was in the right is also a twat. If you really think it's acceptable for someone to hang around schools in a mask and that police have no right to speak to them as they haven't committed a specific offence that is obvious straight away then you are exactly what is wrong with society nowadays.

And despite all the abuse and general crap from the public, politicians and various organisations picking over every decision made in the comfort of their sofa with 20/20 hindsight the police are out doing this...

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