Good Morning Good Night and General Chat.

[S-Westerly]

5 hours ago, bonio said:

Doof. I was wrong again

In Germany they do the slalom and emergency stops and so on "on a quiet street". In Ireland, you just have to do a U turn and slow riding: no slalom, no emergency stop, no avoidance (https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Motorcyclists/The-Motorcycle-Test/). Apart from Spain and UK, I haven't found another country that has an off-road part to the test.

Edit - this article implies that Italy do part of the test off the road. https://www.motorpasionmoto.com/conduccion/si-te-quieres-sacar-el-carnet-de-moto-aqui-tienes-como-es-cada-uno-como-son-sus-examenes-y-sus-precios

 

In the UK we were always suckers for EU rules. Brussels would make up some impossible shite and we'd try and follow it to the letter. The rest of them would "yeah whatever" and go their own way.

[rennie]

Good Morning 

[dynax]

Good morning

[James in Brum]

I fail to see how checking that prospective riders have the skills to handle their bike safely is a bad thing. 
it is of course possible to fail the mod one despite being proficient but you cannot pass it without being proficient and handling, slow riding turning, swerving and stopping suddenly. All good things to be able to do. 
the argument it does not make you a good rider is a straw man argument. The point of the modular test is to seek for people to know how to safely ride their bike and not allow them on the roads with 100+ bhp

[XTreme]

7 hours ago, Bender said:

That's odd a quick Google and more than one site says closed circuit test with cones

http://www.bloomfieldsure.es/Motorbikerulesspain.html

And they can ride mopeds at 15! But it's16 in Britain isn't it? It shows there is differences by country.......so it appears divergence is allowed from the EU recommendations.

What I have noticed since 2005 is that there are much fewer mopeds and smaller bikes going round.......particularly in terms of girl riders. And I don't think I've ever seen a girl rider here on a bigger bike.......unlike in Britain.

You go into the big cities and there's maxi scooters everywhere........scooters don't have the same stigma here as in Britain.

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

I suppose what you need to know is did the serious accident/death rates for the first year post test (statistically the most likely time period for an accident) show a significant downturn after the mod one was introduced? 

Before doing a CBT I was annoyed it wasn’t something that was included with my car licence but after doing one with a load of 16/17yr olds Im glad it exists, partly because it turned out I wasn’t gonna be a threat to Ana Carrasco cos learning to ride a mobike had more in common with patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time than driving a car but also because the 16/17 year olds were so utterly clueless about the road I was genuinely frightened for them.
I spoke to the instructor about how frightening letting them loose on the road with no knowledge was and he agreed wholeheartedly, he said he’s glad they get at least the one days training but it’s so much worse now than it use to be because kids used to sit in the car bored looking out of the window where they would slowly pick up road awareness for example how a roundabout worked or what a parent meant about another driver dithering etc but now theyre mostly clueless because they’re looking at their phones. 
 

I think the test is complicated, off putting and the whole thing costs too much but we’re one of the safest countries in the world to drive in so something must be ok about it. 

[XTreme]

26 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

I fail to see how checking that prospective riders have the skills to handle their bike safely is a bad thing. 
it is of course possible to fail the mod one despite being proficient but you cannot pass it without being proficient and handling, slow riding turning, swerving and stopping suddenly. All good things to be able to do. 
the argument it does not make you a good rider is a straw man argument. The point of the modular test is to seek for people to know how to safely ride their bike and not allow them on the roads with 100+ bhp

I didn't say it was a bad thing for riders to have the correct training and to have assessments......what I said was the number of hoops you have to jump through and the cost of it.

I'm sure a lot of people would look at that and think "f@ck that"......and either not bother or go for a car licence instead. Because that will always be a necessity in life.

 

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

7 hours ago, bonio said:

Doof. I was wrong again

In Germany they do the slalom and emergency stops and so on "on a quiet street". In Ireland, you just have to do a U turn and slow riding: no slalom, no emergency stop, no avoidance (https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Motorcyclists/The-Motorcycle-Test/). Apart from Spain and UK, I haven't found another country that has an off-road part to the test.

Edit - this article implies that Italy do part of the test off the road. https://www.motorpasionmoto.com/conduccion/si-te-quieres-sacar-el-carnet-de-moto-aqui-tienes-como-es-cada-uno-como-son-sus-examenes-y-sus-precios

 

My understanding is we have to abide by EU criteria and include for example slow riding, emergency stop etc but it’s left to individual countries as to how that implemented. So if course rule loving Britain went bananas and made it as difficult as possible.  
 

I think the mod one is unnecessarily easy to fail. Does it really matter if someone needs another go to get up to speed through a speed trap or doesn’t do an over the shoulder check for traffic in what’s effectively a closed tennis court with only you in it- bizarre!

I can understand having watched some of the hopeless cases out of the window taking there mod 1 that they really aren’t ready to be on the road and it must give the examiners a slightly less harrowing experience filtering out those wallies before they get on the road with them.

 

[dynax]

I think it could be made simpler for people who don't want to ride big bikes.

Currently we have a perpeptual CBT, it would make more sense that after the two years on  a CBT, if a person doesn't want to go for a big bike, then it should be made simpler to gain the full A1 licence, it is the same test no matter what bike you ride, but if someone has been riding for two years, they already have a grasp of roadcraft, so perhaps doing a extended form of CBT through a school would be sufficient for the A1 licence, instead of going through the whole mod 1 and 2 process.

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

18 minutes ago, XTreme said:

I didn't say it was a bad thing for riders to have the correct training and to have assessments......what I said was the number of hoops you have to jump through and the cost of it.

I'm sure a lot of people would look at that and think "f@ck that"......and either not bother or go for a car licence instead. Because that will always be a necessity in life.

 

I wasn’t disagreeing with you as I said it’s complicated, off putting and costs too much and yes it does push people to just get a car licence instead. A lot of CBT places are taken up by kids simply redoing their CBT until they can afford a car, they’ve no intention of spending out twice, once for the essential car licence and again for a full bike licence. 

[rennie]

I agree! Sue's CBT has run out again!

She's never going to take her test now but she really doesn't need to keep doing pointless CBT's 

[Bender]

4 minutes ago, rennie said:

I agree! Sue's CBT has run out again!

She's never going to take her test now but she really doesn't need to keep doing pointless CBT's 

Yup cbt is a pain, should pass some sort of test within the 2 years if you just want to stay on 125 and if not be banned from 125 for the next 2 years, that would sort it  

[dynax]

1 minute ago, rennie said:

I agree! Sue's CBT has run out again!

She's never going to take her test now but she really doesn't need to keep doing pointless CBT's 

It's is a stupid legislation, yet someone with no riding experience provided they passed their driving test before 2001, can jump on a moped with no training or L plates and ride on the road, where is the sense in that ?

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

Right I’m off to find that rowing machine I keep looking at so if you don’t hear from me for a while it’s cos I’ve done myself a mischief and am curled up in a ball somewhere

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

Just now, dynax said:

It's is a stupid legislation, yet someone with no riding experience provided they passed their driving test before 2001, can jump on a moped with no training or L plates and ride on the road, where is the sense in that ?

On a 50cc

[dynax]

1 minute ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

On a 50cc

Yes, in licence terms a moped is 50cc or under

[Bender]

@XTremecoming soon to an EU country near you, they are looking to standardise things further.

They have been keeping tabs on numbers of accidents and stats and belive the current system a bit too woolly I think.

I would imagine the current economic fallout from the pandemic will give them bigger problems to worry about.

 

 

 

The main differences with the existing directive are less freedom to countries for moped licensing, direct access to an unrestricted motorcycle at age 24 instead of 21 and the 35 kW motorcycle replaces the 24 kW categories. The first two differences may help to reduce the number of PTW accidents. The third one (35 kW motorcycle) is more likely to do the opposite although it is hard to predict to what extent.

[Trooper74]

Morning all ....

AAHH Saturday morning ..... youngest boy, 3, had me a Julie up at 0730, lie in for me .. both girls, 11 and 9,  appeared at the bottom of our bed, 0830, the big lad, 16, is hiding waiting for the girls to disappear to friends / Uncle Johns ..... 

Coffee !! ..... Nescafe Instant of course ..... bickies and Pepper Pig on the tele ( or maybe Duggee) ..... Saturday morning ...

[Trooper74]

Been watching a couple of short videos on youtube by "8Bikers"  3-5 minute "Motivational" content based around the North West 200 and the TT ....

Worth the watch .... if you've not already seen them of course ......

[learningtofly]

12 hours ago, gymwitch said:

Thanks @Bender i have to say im nervous about the mod 1.

I think the key to Mod 1 is staying calm. And just think... if someone offered you the opportunity to play safely with a large bike on a test pad you'd jump at the chance.

In comparison, Mod 2 is just a nice ride-out with another bike. Good luck, you're nearly there.

[XTreme]

OK......I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.....just bear with me!

If we went back 50 years you could get a new Jap 250 for less than 300 quid (a Tenner a month for 3 years on HP)......and out on the road you went. And bear in mind they weren't the gutless commuters they are now......they were hot stuff affordable bikes for the masses. The Yamaha YDS7 for example, with only a few minor tuning mods, was the mainstay of production racing back then.

I'm not saying that jumping on that never having ridden a bike was a good thing.....because the stats show the 70's to be "The Killing Fields" as far as motorcycles go.

I used to go to a bike funeral every month......even had to identify bodies on the mortuary slab in fact. And I've got some even more gruesome stories on that aspect but there's no need to recount those.......it may put newer riders off.

So......let me reiterate once again, I'm not saying that a scenario where you could just jump on a performance bike without even having a clue how to ride is desirable.....it's most definitely not. My point is that making motorcycle access more and more difficult and horrendously expensive is not a good thing either.

Go back 50 years to the free for all.....I never knew anybody who had a bike stolen......and I never knew anybody who ever stole a bike. And some of those people I knew were not averse to breaking the law.....I knew guys who were done for grave robbing (no, I'm not joking) and even one who went down for first degree murder.

So my question is......is there a correlation between the inaccessibility and extortionate costs of access to the world of motorcycling, and the motorcycle theft epidemic that you guys seem to have over there?

Yes I know that criminals will still be criminals.......but in my day the criminals weren't stealing bikes.

 

[XTreme]

What's your opinion on this @Fred......have I described things accurately?

[James in Brum]

There may be correlation but that does not mean cause. Again I think that is a straw man. 
car licenses are hard to get now with the average spent being pretty huge. 

[XTreme]

1 minute ago, James in Brum said:

There may be correlation but that does not mean cause. Again I think that is a straw man. 
car licenses are hard to get now with the average spent being pretty huge. 

Do car drivers have to jump through those hoops as well?

[dynax]

2 minutes ago, XTreme said:

Do car drivers have to jump through those hoops as well?

No! do they bollox, theory test and one practical test, which can be taken in any car, usually something in the one litre range, then once passed they can drive whatever car they want regardless of engine size and horsepower