other road user issues with bikes ( NOT bikers themselves)

[chrishayward]

As a car driver I feel I must report a near miss I had with with a motor bike recently. It was entirely my fault, but I do have issues with some modern bike styles and designs. I was pulling out onto a straight 60mph country road, in the dark, and in the distance were two small headlights. I know the road ( complacency) and judged the "car" to be 500 yards or so away. It transpired it wasnt a car at all bur a modern style dual headlight bike doing a decent speed and only 75 yards or so away. Luckily no accident but I bet the biker shat themselves as i did when I realised what I had done. This was entirely my fault, but I would implore all you bikers to urge manufacturers to only fit one headlight to bikes as other road users cannot judge what is coming at them, its proximity or its speed in the dark. Dual headlights on bikes look like distant cars to other users in the dark. IMO this is an accident waiting to happen and the other road user will ( rightly) be at fault, just as I was. Just dont want anyone getting hurt as it wont end well at 60mph.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

FortNine mentions this in one of his videos as a hazardous situation. The snag for bikers with that style of headlights is that on an unlit rural road you need full beam and that is precisely when both lights are on in this format.

[Bianco2564]

A valid point and I also should say many car manufacturers have trend of designing headlights, stop,tail and turn lights where you cannot distinguish the turn signal, particularly if the sun catches them at the wrong angle.

And whoever conceived daylight running lights wants sacking .

[Bender]

38 minutes ago, Bianco2564 said:

A valid point and I also should say many car manufacturers have trend of designing headlights, stop,tail and turn lights where you cannot distinguish the turn signal, particularly if the sun catches them at the wrong angle.

And whoever conceived daylight running lights wants sacking .

Blame volvo, I believe brought in with the 240, I had one  

[keith1200rs]

I thought there was some legislation brought in at some time so motorbikes only had one dipped headlight for very reason. Maybe I imagined it. At the time I had a K1200RS which had one headlight bulb but split through two reflectors. Maybe bikers riding on main beam (two lights) is part of the problem.

[DuRavary]

The thing that worries me about some drivers of cars with daylight running lights is they don’t realise that they have no rear lights lit during bad weather. I almost ran into a Dutch car going over the Simplon once because it was invisible in the mist. Luckily I was going very slowly. Most other vehicles had rear lights and rear fog lights on. I later got the chance to tell him that his car was impossible to see and he replied that his lights were on, they were always on.

[S-Westerly]

On bike head lights mine has the usual day notice lights which are a pair and the full beam lights are also a pair. TBH there's not a lot of difference between the two so far as illumination of the road in front. I go much slower in the dark on country roads as I'm literally in the dark.

Day notice lights on cars without rears on are a bloody menace in fog, especially pale coloured ones which seems every other car sometimes.

[techniques]

12 hours ago, chrishayward said:

 I know the road ( complacency) and judged the "car" to be 500 yards or so away. It transpired it wasn't a car at all bur a modern style dual headlight bike doing a decent speed and only 75 yards or so away.

 

Could you not hear the bike?

 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

7 hours ago, techniques said:

 

Could you not hear the bike?

 

I doubt most bikes these days would be audible at that distance from the front.

 

 

[S-Westerly]

8 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I doubt most bikes these days would be audible at that distance from the front.

 

 

Especially as most modern cars are well soundproofed and many drivers play music or have radio on so can't hear much outside their bubble anyway.

[techniques]

Good point above. I asked as I have a similar sketchy road where I can't see oncoming traffic until I edge half way out.

 

I have to rely on my hearing. Wind the window down and listen for an engine  before pulling out. It definitely helps.

Edited November 14, 2021 by techniques

[DuRavary]

3 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Especially as most modern cars are well soundproofed and many drivers play music or have radio on so can't hear much outside their bubble anyway.

It’s been a worry of mine for a long time. Car drivers who roll along in their insulated boxes that keep out road noise, have automatic gearboxes, sophisticated cruise control, automatic windscreen wipers and headlights, high quality sound systems and climate control, how many of those drivers actually pay enough attention to their driving? They are getting farther and farther away from the action. 

[Stu]

2 hours ago, DuRavary said:

It’s been a worry of mine for a long time. Car drivers who roll along in their insulated boxes that keep out road noise, have automatic gearboxes, sophisticated cruise control, automatic windscreen wipers and headlights, high quality sound systems and climate control, how many of those drivers actually pay enough attention to their driving? They are getting farther and farther away from the action. 

 

They are taking the driving out of driving and it's getting worrying! 

[Bianco2564]

6 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Especially as most modern cars are well soundproofed and many drivers play music or have radio on so can't hear much outside their bubble anyway.

All motorcyclists wear a helmet, many wear ear plugs or listen to music while riding, have wind noise blasting our ear drums; can we hear anything outside our bubble?

[bonio]

You can't rely on anyone else hearing you or anything else. You have to drive and ride as if the people around you are deaf. In fact, some of them might be.

[S-Westerly]

2 hours ago, Bianco2564 said:

All motorcyclists wear a helmet, many wear ear plugs or listen to music while riding, have wind noise blasting our ear drums; can we hear anything outside our bubble?

This is true, I can't hear much when riding at faster speeds but my comment was in answer to whether acar driver would necessarily hear a bike.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

8 hours ago, Bianco2564 said:

All motorcyclists wear a helmet, many wear ear plugs or listen to music while riding, have wind noise blasting our ear drums; can we hear anything outside our bubble?

I wear ear plugs designed to allow me to hear traffic but cut out the wind noise. I find them very effective.

 

I never have the radio on when driving the car and have for years said cars should not be fitted with devices which distract the driver or prevent them being aware of what is going on around them. But modern cars are increasingly designed with controls which take the driver's eyes off the road. For example, the tendency to fit climate controls into the infotainment screen.

 

Nor would I ride a motorcycle or a pedal bike whilst listening to music.

 

I know many on here do. That's just my choice.

[Bianco2564]

16 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I never have the radio on when driving the car and have for years said cars should not be fitted with devices which distract the driver or prevent them being aware of what is going on around them. But modern cars are increasingly designed with controls which take the driver's eyes off the road. For example, the tendency to fit climate controls into the infotainment screen.

Indeed, you are not allowed to even pick up your phone but its ok the scroll through endless screens on the infotainment.

When cars were much simpler you didn't have to take your eyes from out front to adjust the heating, you could do it be feel.

[DuRavary]

8 hours ago, Bianco2564 said:

All motorcyclists wear a helmet, many wear ear plugs or listen to music while riding, have wind noise blasting our ear drums; can we hear anything outside our bubble?

Fair enough I suppose but how far would you get on your bike if multiple reasons to need to concentrate were removed? By the way, here in France the use of earphones is strictly controlled, even for cyclists. Your point does not address the other issues mentioned. 

[Bianco2564]

10 hours ago, DuRavary said:

Fair enough I suppose but how far would you get on your bike if multiple reasons to need to concentrate were removed? By the way, here in France the use of earphones is strictly controlled, even for cyclists. Your point does not address the other issues mentioned. 

My post clearly wasn't intended to address all angles of the discussion, just a counter point to the suggestion car drivers are in an insulated sound bubble, we as motorcyclists also have our sense of hearing dulled by helmet, ear plugs etc. 

The UK should adopt France's laws on earphones and include pedestrians wearing them, the number of people I've nearly hit who don't pay attention when crossing the road.