War in europe?

[Bender]

1 hour ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I see the FIA wanted to allow Russian drivers to compete in F1. Motorsport UK have had the balls to say Russian drivers cannot compete in the UK. 

UK have banned him yup can't see the being the only ones. 

[Ian Frog]

Shame on the Olympic commitee for not doing the same !

I wonder if some other nations would be inclined to withdraw from Paralympics in protest ?

I quite like the idea of everyone staying away to make a point.

Cheers

Ian

[S-Westerly]

Notice that well known democrat Bernie Egglestone is whinging about the Sochi GP being cancelled.  What a tosser that wee git is.

[fastbob]

I ordered a canopy masking kit for my model aeroplanes from a Polish seller on eBay . This is the order confirmation I received and it wasn't quite what I was expecting . 

[Bender]

It is certainly impacting lots of things, nothing on the scale of poor Ukrainians. 

[S-Westerly]

Well just joined my ship. 4 Russians and 2 Ukrainians.  2 Russians going home today and other 2 (assuming they can) in the next week or so. Spoken to 2 of them who I've known for years. One (older) is convinced its all Western BS and that in a couple of weeks it will be business as usual. The other is almost in tears with shame and rage at his own country. Sad thing is that all of the Russians are likely to be out of a job if this does carry on although as they make up about 50% of our officers it could be problematic for us all. As to my Ukrainians they are really f**ked. One has already been on board for 5 months and should have got off here. Unfortunately he can't as there is literally no way for him to get home which is Odessa and already been lined up for the next Russian assault. Poor bast*rds.

[Fozzie]

Imagine being so f**king stupid as to bomb a nuclear power station.

 

It's a safer design than Chernobyl, but knock off power, and damage systems controlling the backup generator, and you've got very little stopping those reactors being cooled. Best case they have meltdown capable containment in place, but it would still create a serious mess we had no way of cleaning up. 

[KiwiBob]

16 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Imagine being so f**king stupid as to bomb a nuclear power station.

 

It's a safer design than Chernobyl, but knock off power, and damage systems controlling the backup generator, and you've got very little stopping those reactors being cooled. Best case they have meltdown capable containment in place, but it would still create a serious mess we had no way of cleaning up. 

Just playing devils advocate but .. "IF" Russian forces came under fire from the plant what would you expect them to do?

[Fozzie]

13 minutes ago, KiwiBob said:

Just playing devils advocate but .. "IF" Russian forces came under fire from the plant what would you expect them to do?

 

You surround it at a safe distance and stop supplies coming in/out until the humans inside are sufficiently hungry. They won't destroy their own country, so will likely wind the reactors down, which I believe they have been doing. 

 

You definitely don't shell it. 

 

[KiwiBob]

1 minute ago, Fozzie said:

 

You surround it at a safe distance and stop supplies coming in/out until the humans inside are sufficiently hungry. They won't destroy their own country, so will likely wind the reactors down, which I believe they have been doing. 

 

You definitely don't shell it. 

 

I think you live in a dream world!

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Shelling a nuclear facility is a sure sign that Putin's campaign is totally derailed. The problem is having underestimated the situation how does he get out and stay in power? I suspect he can't which makes him very dangerous.

 

Hard to believe someone within the Russian military can't see where this is heading and start thinking about removing him.

[Fozzie]

4 minutes ago, KiwiBob said:

I think you live in a dream world!

 

Before today, no one has ever bombed a nuclear power station. And surrounding your enemy and cutting them off is a very well established tactic in war, especially invasions to force surrender. Because you want to take over the infrastructure, not pay to rebuild it all. This is hardly dream world thinking.

 

Your suggestion that it was the Ukrainians that started this conflict at the nuclear plant, during a Russian invasion however...

[KiwiBob]

4 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

 

Before today, no one has ever bombed a nuclear power station. And surrounding your enemy and cutting them off is a very well established tactic in war, especially invasions to force surrender. Because you want to take over the infrastructure, not pay to rebuild it all. This is hardly dream world thinking.

 

Your suggestion that it was the Ukrainians that started this conflict at the nuclear plant, during a Russian invasion however...

During the Gulf war the USA bombed 3 nuclear reactors in Iraq! 

Edited March 4, 2022 by KiwiBob

[Fozzie]

1 minute ago, KiwiBob said:

During the Gulf war the USA bombed 3 nuclear reactors in Iraq!

 

I thought they were tiny research reactors as part of a facility to produce weapons? They don't have anywhere near the potential of harm that a full sized power station does. 

 

But my point still stands, it's a horrifically stupid idea to bomb one. 

[KiwiBob]

1 minute ago, Fozzie said:

 

I thought they were tiny research reactors as part of a facility to produce weapons? They don't have anywhere near the potential of harm that a full sized power station does. 

 

But my point still stands, it's a horrifically stupid idea to bomb one. 

How big does a nuclear reactor have to be before it becomes off limits?

[Fozzie]

Just now, KiwiBob said:

How big does a nuclear reactor have to be before it becomes off limits?

 

When its destruction poses global harm.

 

I'm talking about power stations, not things like nuclear subs, which have a much lower capability of causing harm (but still not good).

[S-Westerly]

7 minutes ago, KiwiBob said:

How big does a nuclear reactor have to be before it becomes off limits?

Oh for fucks sake, the power station in question is the largest nuclear plant in Europe.  Comparing what the US did in Iraq is disingenuous at best. Iraq did not have functioning nuclear power stations. Why would they? They had oil and gas coming out of their ears. 

[S-Westerly]

Moving on from power stations I'm currently busy with trying to get assistance from my company to enable one of my guy's family to evacuate from near Odessa to Romania. They range in age from 5 to 86. They are fleeing with nothing more than suitcases and have no idea when they'll get home. So don't try and sell me some left wing bullshit that this is all the fault of the West.

[KiwiBob]

1 hour ago, S-Westerly said:

Oh for fucks sake, the power station in question is the largest nuclear plant in Europe.  Comparing what the US did in Iraq is disingenuous at best. Iraq did not have functioning nuclear power stations. Why would they? They had oil and gas coming out of their ears. 

The same reason the UAE have nuclear power stations! They have "oil coming out of its ears" too

[Fozzie]

UAE's nuclear stations are very recent, in 2010 they were near entirely powered by natural gas. Iraq is supposedly 81% fossil fuel powered, with the other 19% from renewable sources. I'm trying to keep my replies fairly flat toned, but it feels like there's more personal feelings involved than would be for someone playing devils advocate, so going to leave it there.

 

Been following more output from the Ukrainian's. My favourite video this week has to be the farmer robbing a light tank with his tractor. And many civilian vehicles have been commandeered by the Russian forces and videod as being part of this large convoy. Suggesting their heavy equipment wasn't up to scratch. This already looks bad for Russia, but now in ways that could be construed as embarrassing.

 

Their media being tightened is a hopefully positive sign that people are seeing through Putin a bit more. But needs to be quicker for the sake of those in Ukraine as I feel in desperation he'll only get more reckless. And we've seen now his army will just do it. 

[S-Westerly]

45 minutes ago, KiwiBob said:

The same reason the UAE have nuclear power stations! They have "oil coming out of its ears" too

Not at the time of the Iraq war they didn't. 

[KiwiBob]

Fozzie, I can assure you that there are no "more personal feelings" involved!

 

I am as appalled as you and everyone else as to what is happening in Ukraine. I just don't like a lot of the way the press is hyping up the propaganda!

 

In Ukraine civilians are "murdered from the skies with banned cluster bombs". .. In Iraq they were "collateral damage"

 

The press and public also welcome Ukraine refugees with open arms and so they should! .. They aren't so keen on refugees from Afghanistan and the Middle East!

 

 

[Fozzie]

Russia attacking a nuclear power station isn't media hyperbole or propaganda however. Videos and pictures have poured out of the region all day. 

And its been reported that in Russia, the last independent media outlets have been shut down for covering the invasion. Coincidentally after their saw a surge in viewership.

Not saying our media doesn't have problems or exaggerate, but I don't recall them being anything but damning of the handling of things in the middle east. I can't say the same for the comment sections on the Daily mail however... And I don't think they'll be much more receptive to the Ukrainians...

[Throttled]

My university degree was in International Relations and at that time in the mid 1980s, it was dominated by the Cold War. The history of Ukraine and Russia and the Soviet Union is one of intense rivalry and genocide. The Holodomor was a genocide of Ukrainians by Stalin deliberately causing mass famine, killing around 7 million people over a 12 month period in 1932-3. Then, many Ukrainians fought with the Nazis during WII and the Action Reinhardt death camps were staffed by Ukrainians, under German officers, during the Holocaust.

 

There are some people still alive who will remember that and many more Ukrainians will have parents or grandparents who were there, and with that history, this conflict is going to be brutal.

[Essem]

In the Middle East the intentions were to depose despotic dictatorships to allow a path for democracy. Russia has invaded an independent sovereign state. 
 

Russia has shut down any media that is not run by the state, and made it illegal to say anything other than the state “special exercise” instead of war. In the UK we have a free press, you could find many different opinions in our medi about Iraq invasion.

 

Russia has chosen military as it’s weapon of choice. The democracies have chosen sanctions as their weapon of choice. It’s too far gone for either to back down now. 
 

what an f’in mess.