onesea Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Any opinions? Looking at non pressurised, type. Have been using a cartridge type stove, on the boat however in the cold they are slow. Have also had a couple of minor had leaks / fires. When heating things on low heat. Have been hearing of a few cases of this. I have ordered an alcohol one from China to play with. I know it all works different to photo. Plan is to make it "spill proof" using ceramic wool felt. If this works in garden I might spend £££ on a marine version. Anyone any experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontious Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) I’m not sure I would want an alcohol stove on a boat. With gas in cold environments for camping stoves you need two things. A preheat tube that carries the gas from the valve that enters the stove and passes very close to or through the flame - plus the ability to invert the gas so instead of vapour the gas enters the preheat tube as a liquid which is then vapourised. This would be extremely dangerous on a boat. I would want the gas or fuel fully contained on a boat just as it is when being used in the vestibule of a tent. Or in a caravan (to a lesser extent) I would maybe try a petroleum based fuel like Aspen 4 petrol, which burns extremely cleanly (never use ordinary unleaded) and a pressurised stove like the double one from Coleman, or one of its clones. This way the fuel is fully contained and the performance is not affected by either temperature or movement. I would not be happy using an alcohol stove anywhere near a tent, certainly not in its bad weather cooking area or, for the same reason a caravan or boat. Edited March 15, 2023 by Gerontious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 36 minutes ago, onesea said: Any opinions? Looking at non pressurised, type. Have been using a cartridge type stove, on the boat however in the cold they are slow. Have also had a couple of minor had leaks / fires. When heating things on low heat. Have been hearing of a few cases of this. I have ordered an alcohol one from China to play with. I know it all works different to photo. Plan is to make it "spill proof" using ceramic wool felt. If this works in garden I might spend £££ on a marine version. Anyone any experience. Just buy the canisters with propane/butane mix, butane is crap when it's cold, draws heat from can when boiling and reduces pressure when in use https://www.amazon.co.uk/Butane-Propane-70-Cartridge-Silver/dp/B07YTZZGJD/ref=asc_df_B07YTZZGJD/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=399579036646&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16043939969722418453&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006938&hvtargid=pla-849349913978&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=84809711003&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=399579036646&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16043939969722418453&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006938&hvtargid=pla-849349913978 Best way is buy an adapter for map gas blowtorch canister it's a very hot gas and will not freeze up for anything your doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 When I had a boat we had a built in gimballed gas oven. Worked brilliantly using large gas canisters hard piped with gas rated copper pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, S-Westerly said: When I had a boat we had a built in gimballed gas oven. Worked brilliantly using large gas canisters hard piped with gas rated copper pipe. Built in gas storage and a cooker needs to meet all kinds of regs, may have implications on increasing insurance, a portable stove is just that. Technically I'm covered for boats, it's not something I would touch with a barge poll, pun intended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 Lots of challenges in this the boat is classic design with low freeboard. Originally the gas bottle was in the anchor locker. Previous owner opted for removing this when a surveyor raised various “ issues”. There would be less but similar issues at the stern, the best option would be a gas locker on deck. The challenge is as a private boat owner (not on inland waterways) there are no “regs” as such. However invite a surveyor on board and they can look to the regulations that a commercial boat must satisfy. Then choose which regs, they feel appropriate. A commercial gas fitter will fit to commercial standards at £££ Another thing against gas is Full Gas cylinders on the south coast have been like hens teeth down the last few seasons. Yes we have tried propane butane mix canisters, present ones are said to be that. However they have seriously struggled all winter. Other modern gas free alternatives are induction hobs, microwaves. Not really an option for us. Older examples are pressurised paraffin stoves and alcohol stoves. Both famous for being flame throwers if not lit properly. I can testify to this, we have one already in form of a pressurised paraffin heater with chimney. It takes 3 minutes to light and once lit produces ample heat all day. However it takes 3 minutes of concentration if not you get balls of flame, not what you want when you just want a brew. The cheap alcohol stove shown above would be very much a short term thing. Starting in garden, then moving it the to boat in flat conditions if we get confident. If that worked and we felt we got on with it there is a marine grade alcohol stove but it costs ££ and has no gimbals or pot holders so more £. I was just looking for knowledge outside the marine world where views on cooking fuels have become polarised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Ours was a biggish boat and the gas installation was "approved". Survey for insurance wasn't an issue as I can conduct survey myself and insurance was never an issue. If you are just "camping" in the boat what you fancy should work. My only concern would be burning fuel slopping out. Keep an extinguisher handy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I've used 30% propane mix in a tent porch at - 10' I've used power mix which is just branding with primus stoves and never had it freeze, how much cooking you planning on doing There may be no enforcement of regs as no one knows what your doing but they do exist and are enforceable in the event of an incident. https://www.joom.com/en/products/622090f214e0cd01c32ef16d?variant_id=622090f214e0cd80c32ef172 Mapp stops turning to vapour below-100, it's more expensive than propane but cheaper than those small disposable tins your using. Mapp gas has high temp flame or just go propane https://www.amazon.co.uk/Propane-Bottle-Disposable-Cylinder-plumbers/dp/B07D5KQDXK/ref=asc_df_B07D5KQDXK/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=344153295811&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6932467656292087685&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006948&hvtargid=pla-700619512783&psc=1 Propane boils just below - 40 at which point you will have your boat ice bound and have bigger problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, S-Westerly said: Ours was a biggish boat and the gas installation was "approved". Survey for insurance wasn't an issue as I can conduct survey myself and insurance was never an issue. If you are just "camping" in the boat what you fancy should work. My only concern would be burning fuel slopping out. Keep an extinguisher handy! Slopping out is where the ceramic wick comes in. We will play with cheap Chinese one at home with spray bottles and garden hose and simulate a spill (or 2) and extinguishing it. The boats an old long keel boat low freeboard, what a traditionalist would call a proper boat (except she’s fibreglass). Designed before gas lockers, where a thing when self draining cockpits and heavy Deisel engines where new. However unlike our last larger boat the dogs can get below without lifting them, the we can step onto the pontoon or out of the dinghy easily. Given a 30 knot blow either of us can sail it single handed. The accommodation by modern standards is minimalist and easily heated by the paraffin heater. Sadly self survey has become more difficult, I managed it for years. However I have found insurance companies will accept for 3rd party insurance not fully comp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidtav Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 I believe that if your boat was built before 1999 then it doesn’t have to comply with RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) … however a lot of surveyors will follow advice from Calor as best practice. If your boat is used on Inland Waters then a separate code of practice needs to be followed I have the same issues regarding obtains gas cylinders. As all boat owners have these days unfortunately. I was under the impression that non pressurised alcohol stoves are much safer than a conventional gas system. Many boats use Origo stoves for this reason. Personally, I have started using a small induction hob. And a small air fryer on board. This only works when plugged into a mains supply. But does allow me to minimise my use of gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/gas-safety/seasonal-gas-safety-advice/gas-safety-on-boats/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidtav Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Bender said: https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/gas-safety/seasonal-gas-safety-advice/gas-safety-on-boats/ That is all probably good advice but if the boat isn’t used for charter or on Inland Waterways I don’t believe it is a legal requirement 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Davidtav said: That is all probably good advice but if the boat isn’t used for charter or on Inland Waterways I don’t believe it is a legal requirement That's my understanding. However keep an eye out the new SI for watercraft could be the start of regulations. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2023/35/introduction/made Regulations are not something that are always good. Particularly when the RYA support it: https://www.rya.org.uk/news/2023/01/20/rya-welcomes-new-watercraft-legislation-2023 More authority and growth in revenue for them.. I know of one case for inland waterways, bought a boat. Needed it a survey for BSS. The gas locker had been well made by folding aluminium sheet to a complex shape then wrapping it in fiberglass. All fitting regulations except... The surveyor condemned the locker "the locker should be made of fibreglass or aluminium". I understand it had previously passed survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 Ok thought I would update this. Cheap Stove arrived, followed by alcohol. Played with both, we found it worked. We tried creating a small fire or 3 and managed to extinguish them in good time. We ordered some ceramic wool for the Alcohol well, cut it with misses cake cutters (don’t tell her), filled it up turned it on its side not a drip. If it’s slower than gas it’s not allot, we just cooked 3 boiled potatoes in 25 minutes. Then fried them up for good measure. I am sold, we will be using the remaining gas cylinders and in time doing a switch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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