You maybe safer on your bike!

[onesea]

0.008% Chance of dying on motorbike.

 

O.014% Chance of a male comitting suicide.

 

Having learned of the loss of another genuine good guy. Some how it spurred me to look at statistics. I once figured that being left on your own as a man is more dangerous than riding a motorbike.  It's certainly showing true in real life.

 

I have simplified the figures, however these IMHO won't be far from the mark.

 

0.008% Chances of dying on motorbike.

Maths as follows:

Number of motorcyclists Killed or seriously injured 285

https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/uk-motorcycle-accident-statistics/

 

Over

Number of motorcyclists in uk 3.6 million.

https://www.bikesure.co.uk/bikesureblog/2022/05/bike-capitals-britain/#:~:text=2021 saw 3.6 million licensed,on two wheels each year.

 

 

O.014% Chance of a male comitting suicide:

 

Male suicide UK 4,129:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2021registrations

 

Over

Male population  29.2 million:

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/demographics/male-and-female-populations/latest

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by onesea

[Fiddlesticks]

We were in Sportsbikeshop Leeds today and saw leaflets to this effect. They were for an organisation looking to provide support - apparently suicide is the leading cause of death for young men. 

Always worth reaching out and talking to someone.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Fiddlesticks said:

We were in Sportsbikeshop Leeds today and saw leaflets to this effect. They were for an organisation looking to provide support - apparently suicide is the leading cause of death for young men. 

Always worth reaching out and talking to someone.

Being serious. Are there figures for men committing suicide by motorcycle ?

I've often thought it would be a decent way to go if things get too bad.

[onesea]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Being serious. Are there figures for men committing suicide by motorcycle ?

I've often thought it would be a decent way to go if things get too bad.

Let’s face it there are 2 ways we’ll get taken off our bikes.  By some idiot pulling out (as happened to my nephew this evening, he’s ok bike probably dead). Or oh f**k I have over cooked this, intentional or not

The problem is the not quite making the goal, long term injuries/ disabilities.

 

@Fiddlesticks it’s Middle aged Male suicide figures are quite horrendous.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/research-policy/middle-aged-men-suicide/suicide-risk-factors-middle-aged-men/

 

Then the liver and kidney damage/ injuries in females IMHO is going to race up in time through the amount of attempted overdoses by young females that are happening.

 

 

[Fozzie]

I'm involved with a couple of groups, and it's a growing problem. Suicide on the whole is increasing, but male suicide is already at 3 to 1 against women, and looking set to carry on going up. The common themes are often:

 

Isolation, and low social skills so they struggle making friends. And they fall into a rabbit hole online, which just degrades their mental health to the point of developing a condition of some sort. Which then further alienates them from society, and makes it really hard to bring them back. This most affects the younger men, teenagers etc.

 

Custody issues. Men feeling like they are used for cash cows to fund kids after a split with a partner. But aren't able to see them. This affects about a third of guys I know personally in some way, and it's also driving other men into being terrified of getting into relationships, as they feel their only value is in what they can financially provide. Mediation reforms are coming in to try and soothe this, as it then limits vengeful tactics in getting the court on side to alienate fathers, but it remains to be seen. 

 

Cyber bullying is pretty intense. Falling out with people, or having a breakup can trigger the more image conscious, insecure, or just straight up vengeful into going heavy on the reputation destruction, usually to online friends who are less likely to happen across any facts to the contrary. The stories often appear convincing, even having witnesses, and young men tend to be the recipient, although I've seen it go both ways. 

 

I find this topic quite interesting as it compares bike deaths with suicide. I once actively planned to end things, and it involved my motorbike, a long straight, a corner I had no intention of slowing for and hitting at full speed, and disappearing into woods hoping not to be found. I now wonder, which stat that would have fallen under?

[rennie]

The suicide figures for ex servicemen are really bad! 

[onesea]

7 hours ago, Fozzie said:

I'm involved with a couple of groups, and it's a growing problem. Suicide on the whole is increasing, but male suicide is already at 3 to 1 against women, and looking set to carry on going up. The common themes are often:

 

Isolation, and low social skills so they struggle making friends. And they fall into a rabbit hole online, which just degrades their mental health to the point of developing a condition of some sort. Which then further alienates them from society, and makes it really hard to bring them back. This most affects the younger men, teenagers etc.

 

Custody issues. Men feeling like they are used for cash cows to fund kids after a split with a partner. But aren't able to see them. This affects about a third of guys I know personally in some way, and it's also driving other men into being terrified of getting into relationships, as they feel their only value is in what they can financially provide. Mediation reforms are coming in to try and soothe this, as it then limits vengeful tactics in getting the court on side to alienate fathers, but it remains to be seen. 

 

Cyber bullying is pretty intense. Falling out with people, or having a breakup can trigger the more image conscious, insecure, or just straight up vengeful into going heavy on the reputation destruction, usually to online friends who are less likely to happen across any facts to the contrary. The stories often appear convincing, even having witnesses, and young men tend to be the recipient, although I've seen it go both ways. 

 

I find this topic quite interesting as it compares bike deaths with suicide. I once actively planned to end things, and it involved my motorbike, a long straight, a corner I had no intention of slowing for and hitting at full speed, and disappearing into woods hoping not to be found. I now wonder, which stat that would have fallen under?

All so true:

1. Divorce - Failure to get on or wanting for one or other out of life,
2. Loss of home - and often possessions,
3. Subsequent Needing to finance own home and partially finances child’s home,
4. Loss of friends/ isolation - normally caused by the divorce (you certainly learn who your friends are),
5. Potential for loss of all contact with children,
6. Fighting to see own children,
7. Challenges faced if access achieved - maintaining it both ways,
8. Social life every other weekend team sports etc become difficult,
9. Challenges in starting new relationship - with access, these often fail,
10. Eventual loss of children - Most non residential parents if they get access Loose all meaning full contact within a handful of years,
11. Effect on career - access battles, access and finances often force changes of careers,
12. Challenges of getting info from schools, clubs etc,
13. Those leaving the forces the loss of sense of belonging and being must be massive.  Particularly when faced with new career and life style.

The list goes on and on.

 

Even the thought of this is enough to drive people to the edge.

 

The effects on the person cannot go underestimated,

 

For me I can score:

1 - Even 14 years later I will not meet her without witness present, it saves further safe guarding.

2 - I have now all but off paid mortgages for 2 houses,

3 - By giving up the house I only have to pay maintenance for my daughter,

4, 6,7 - no explanation needed,

8, This is the reason I no longer race competitively in sailing,  it’s also how I came to motorbikes.  Bikers are not the most punctual or when you don’t turn up because you have access (if not just say it was raining ).

9, Engaged for 14 years however she won’t marry me incase she has to pay towards my daughter (she does but voluntarily as mum has no choice over what and just has to be grateful).  Although she might actually be included if my daughter goes to uni.

11,  Yes various knock on effects, divorce affected my career (and income capacity) significantly.  I now work in a totally separate industry for less money.

12, Don’t underestimate the time and energy this can take up.

 

No 5 & 10 Could still always happen.

 

However I am lucky my daughter is doing well and wants to see me.
 

If you asked me 15 years ago my goals in life this would of been assumed and low on my list.

 

I have never had to spend a night in my car, or enforced sofa surfing, many do for days weeks months. 

 

Many do not, or are considered as given up (defeated would be a better term), some people sadly give it all up, at some point most consider it.

For me It took 6 years before I was ready to try for more roots, I was living month by month with no commitments.  The only reason I did not move on was my daughter wanting to see me. The emotional stress and strain has been immense.

 

 

[Steve_M]

A question that just came to me.

 

23 years ago a young lad, aged 15/16 who went to school with my son and played in the same football team, committed suicide. 
 

Chatting to my son, it seems there were others among his peers who were having a difficult time (as adolescents do) and appeared, also, to be contemplating suicide. 
 

Is suicide contagious, as in a form of hysteria among the vulnerable? If so, what can be done about it? 

[Fozzie]

15 minutes ago, Steve_M said:

A question that just came to me.

 

23 years ago a young lad, aged 15/16 who went to school with my son and played in the same football team, committed suicide. 
 

Chatting to my son, it seems there were others among his peers who were having a difficult time (as adolescents do) and appeared, also, to be contemplating suicide. 
 

Is suicide contagious, as in a form of hysteria among the vulnerable? If so, what can be done about it? 

 

There are groups to put it morbidly, that it appeals to. Those who feel isolated, or that they have no purpose can often idealise suicide due to the kindness and affection they see aimed towards peers who killed themselves. They are suffering, and want to be noticed or have some recognition and kindness, but have no idea how to go about it, and they often obsess over negative labels, like being called an attention seeker. It affects teen boys a lot as their concept of death is better than kids, but in a brain charged with new emotions and impulsive feelings. It is possible for suicide to trigger others into doing the same, but I'd point out they were suffering big time before this, all that happened was they found what they think is a way forward. 

 

Method often indicates the aim. Jumping in front of a train vs making something fatal look like an accident or vanishing betray very different mentalities. The more dramatic methods like leaping in front of a train tend to want to highlight how much they suffered, whereas the more discreet methods where someone wants to not be found, or look like an accident, tend to be deeply ashamed of how they feel.

[Yorky]

5 hours ago, Fozzie said:

 

The more dramatic methods like leaping in front of a train tend to want to highlight how much they suffered, whereas the more discreet methods where someone wants to not be found, or look like an accident, tend to be deeply ashamed of how they feel.

Who told you that then ??

[Fozzie]

1 hour ago, Yorky said:

Who told you that then ??

 

It's general themes, rather than specifics. Mostly it's extrapolated from the experiences of those who attempted suicide but either failed or couldn't go through with it, and later speak of how they felt. Sometimes notes left behind are shared by others. I also have my own experience where my plan was built around making it difficult to be found due to how I felt about the situation driving it. 

 

You get everything in between, but after a while of sitting in on the groups (I act as moderater) you begin to hear common themes. It's grim stuff, but also reassuring that we have these similarities in many cases, as it at least suggests there could be a harmonised approach in dealing with a lot of it. 

[bonio]

12 hours ago, Steve_M said:

A question that just came to me.

 

23 years ago a young lad, aged 15/16 who went to school with my son and played in the same football team, committed suicide. 
 

Chatting to my son, it seems there were others among his peers who were having a difficult time (as adolescents do) and appeared, also, to be contemplating suicide. 
 

Is suicide contagious, as in a form of hysteria among the vulnerable? If so, what can be done about it? 

I've always been told that it's contagious, especially amongst late teens / young adults.

When I was studying, all the church towers were locked in exam season, so students couldn't throw themselves off, and - so we heard - suicides went unreported to stop them spreading. It's not just rumour: there's some solid evidence too.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by bonio