Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

[geofferz]

6 minutes in, though the first 2 points are interesting too

I've been saying this for years, contrary to popular belief. Especially when I test rode a Harley with loads of torque but joke low rpm therefore sod bhp - I couldn't feel any torque (or anything, just a horrible huge boat between my legs). Now I know why.

[raesewell]

There is a saying that "horse power sells bikes and torque wins races"

[geofferz]

There is a saying that "horse power sells bike and torque wins races"

 

But that's not true - hp wins. Watch the video!

[raesewell]

There is a saying that "horse power sells bike and torque wins races"

 

But that's not true - hp wins. Watch the video!

 

True or not, I was just passing on the saying.

[Stu]

BHP wins races all day everyday!

torque just drags you along

You ride on torque and race on BHP

[raesewell]

I must say I very rarely look at torque figures when considering a bike but I do look at the BHP figures.

[Guest Richzx6r]

I look at both....if they are both big numbers then that's my kinda bike

[geofferz]

BHP wins races all day everyday!

torque just drags you along

You ride on torque and race on BHP

 

Nope - bhp is torque x rpm. So if you have loads of torque but only 1k rpm you won't go anywhere fast! Similarly you can have very little torque but if you have loads of rpm you'll go fast. So, bhp is really the only important figure. There's no 'feeling torque' either.

[Stu]

BHP wins races all day everyday!

torque just drags you along

You ride on torque and race on BHP

 

Nope - bhp is torque x rpm. So if you have loads of torque but only 1k rpm you won't go anywhere fast! Similarly you can have very little torque but if you have loads of rpm you'll go fast. So, bhp is really the only important figure. There's no 'feeling torque' either.

 

Sorry I have to disagree with some parts!

I wasn't talking about going anywhere fast. if you have plenty of torque at 1k it will pull you along and opening the throttle it will pull but if you have half that torque you would more than likely need to change gear or if it does pull you along it will a lot slower than with twice the torque

I believe there is a feeling of torque having ridden many many bikes of all powers and torques you can feel the pull when a bike or car for that matter has plenty of torque.

Torque and BHP are as important as each other and they do indeed work together

[Snod Blatter]

Obviously just like everyone else I'm not watching 6 minutes of video but there is the actual meaning of torque with proper numbers associated to it and then there is the colloquial use of torque which basically means "muscly engine feeling".

BHP tends to be useful because it dictates how short/long the gearing is between the crank and the rear wheel but the only true measure is the full torque curve, while bearing in mind known top speed/gearing.

As if geofferz expected people to watch the video before commenting

[Bender]

If you don't have torque your not moving.

I do like his vids

[Guest Richzx6r]

Obviously just like everyone else I'm not watching 6 minutes of video but there is the actual meaning of torque with proper numbers associated to it and then there is the colloquial use of torque which basically means "muscly engine feeling".

BHP tends to be useful because it dictates how short/long the gearing is between the crank and the rear wheel but the only true measure is the full torque curve, while bearing in mind known top speed/gearing.

As if geofferz expected people to watch the video before commenting

 

You sir know too much, do you get out much

[Stu]

I think this is a better explanation of torque and power compared to the first post

Gear ratios have a massive part to play in all this and its not all about the power and torque figures

If you could have the same bike/car with the same gear ratios but adjust torque only or power only you would see and feel the difference

when I first got my TL I thought it was really slow! and was always revving it out. It took me about 6 months to learn the bike and at what point to change gear. It only had 114 bhp but bags of torque but hell it got you there quick!

[Bender]

My car has 400 of each, I made it that way so as there could be no argument over which is more important.

[Snod Blatter]

You sir know too much, do you get out much

I'm off to change my vote in the TOTY thread

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I was taught that BHP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

[Stu]

I was taught that BHP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

 

I have known this one for a long time and its the best way to describe it

[MikeHorton]

All I can add is when I had my RE Himalayan it didn't get anywhere very fast bit due to the torque I never had to go up and down the gears that much it would still happily chug up the hill in the same gear with the minimum of fuss. I think it depends on what you want to do and find that sweet spot of bhp and torque

[The Hitcher]

In bike engine terms isn't it more inline 4=BHP,V Twin=Torque.

[geofferz]

I was taught that BHP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

 

I don't think that's true though. If you bit the wall at 50mph regardless of your bhp or torque you'll do x damage and go x far. If you hit it at 100 you'll do more and go farther, again regardless of the stats. You can't go anywhere without rpm, and bhp is torque x rpm. Bhp is the only important figure, according to that video.

[geofferz]

In bike engine terms isn't it more inline 4=BHP,V Twin=Torque.

 

Again the two are linked due to rpm but yes twins are usually torquier due to the size of the cylinder I guess. The twin harley I was referring to has 118ftlb torque which is way more than your V4. So is it in any way faster? Is it f***!! That torque peaks at 3,500 rpm. Harley doesn't even state the bhp but I calculate it to be less than 80. It feels like a bike with less than 80bhp and that's it - the torque figure is irrelevant. Comparatively an r6 has 45ftlb of torque but makes peak bhp of 116bhp and therefore feels and is measurably faster in all ways. Of course you'll have to rev it more, but that's just that.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about this. Different engines have different characteristics. My. Bobber is 1200 twin, low on bhp but between 2500-5000 rpm it pulls like a train. On a twisty road coming out of corners iit is a hoot.

I've ridden with guys on bikes with much higher bhp and we keep pace with each other no problem. Going into a bend I have to brake much earlier them because my brakes are nowhere near as powerful, but I make that up coming out of the corner.

We're all happy.

[MikeHorton]

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about this. Different engines have different characteristics. My. Bobber is 1200 twin, low on bhp but between 2500-5000 rpm it pulls like a train. On a twisty road coming out of corners iit is a hoot.

I've ridden with guys on bikes with much higher bhp and we keep pace with each other no problem. Going into a bend I have to brake much earlier them because my brakes are nowhere near as powerful, but I make that up coming out of the corner.

We're all happy.

 

It's what makes you smile that counts!

[The Hitcher]

In bike engine terms isn't it more inline 4=BHP,V Twin=Torque.

 

Again the two are linked due to rpm but yes twins are usually torquier due to the size of the cylinder I guess. The twin harley I was referring to has 118ftlb torque which is way more than your V4. So is it in any way faster? Is it f***!! That torque peaks at 3,500 rpm. Harley doesn't even state the bhp but I calculate it to be less than 80. It feels like a bike with less than 80bhp and that's it - the torque figure is irrelevant. Comparatively an r6 has 45ftlb of torque but makes peak bhp of 116bhp and therefore feels and is measurably faster in all ways. Of course you'll have to rev it more, but that's just that.

 

Yeah, twins don’t like to rev that much overall, it’s definitely easier to get big power out of an inline 4, back in the late 90s/early 00s the superbike rules used to be 750cc 4s and 1000cc twins, the twins needing the capacity advantage to make it a level playing field in terms of power, after that both 4s and twins were allowed 1000cc for a time but the twins were allowed more modifications from standard to compete, then it was revised again to 1000cc 4s and 1200cc twins, in the end Ducati had hit a wall with being able to get anymore out of a V twin engine and had to build a 4.

In terms of road bikes etc twins can be great, including in sports bikes but towards the more performance orientated end where power counts for a lot they can’t compete on equal terms with an inline 4 or V4.

Also you’re right, Harleys don’t make much power at all, they spend all of that energy converting petrol into noise , to be fair to them though if I had a long distance ride to do I’d much sooner do it on a Harley than my bike!.

[Phill]

I would love to try a big v-twin one day, just to see how different it feels compared to my fazer 600...