Mr Fro Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: It is if people die unnecessarily How many people have died as a result of this mirror system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mr Fro said: How many people have died as a result of this mirror system? None I know off. If you introduce a system with blind spots that doesn’t work well in the dark n rain it’s a matter of time and that is my point- that they’ve introduced it before ironing out these problems with real world testing. As I said introducing changes after the 20th accident when you could have just listened to the drivers who actually use them is arrogant and ridiculous. Edited March 10, 2021 by Slowlycatchymonkey Of course the pictures and the drivers comments could just be made up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Fish said: Just seen this on facecrap and thought I'd share. Fish It's worse from a normal mirror in those conditions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: It is if people die unnecessarily Why will they do that,have you heard or seen any instances of people being killed by Merc trucks, these have been on the road for a couple of years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 How many of you have driven a large vehicle with these fitted V's with standard mirrors? I know people who have driven buses with these fitted and at first they was all the arguments against them then once out on the road those arguments faded away! They could actually see more and due to their design then stay cleaner than mirrors. The only concern about them is if the screens stop working but that is a vehicle defect and prohibition so should not be driven any further as per the requirements if a mirror gets knocked off And the screens are in a slightly different position so you have to get used to where they but most vehicles have mirrors in different places and when you can drive up to 5 or 6 different ones a day you quickly get used to them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Maybe they should stop people taking photos while driving, that's bound to reduce accidents The cameras in those photos need a clean, if the driver did that instead maybe the pics wouldn't have been so bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) My point is (and I’m not sure if it’s being deliberately missed cos people are bored) that if the end users- the lorry drivers who ACTUALLY USE THEM aren’t happy with them (that they have blind spots and are poor in the dark) then they haven’t iron out the wrinkles (ie consulted the end users enough) and shouldn’t have put them in general release until that point. Of course these professional drivers who say they have weak spots could be wrong or making it up but I’d take their word over someone who doesn’t have a class one and hasnt used them. Edited March 10, 2021 by Slowlycatchymonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bender said: The cameras in those photos need a clean, if the driver did that instead maybe the pics wouldn't have been so bad. They are designed in a way to direct air flow in a way that it directs the road grime away from the cameras the thing with that photo is how do we know if the fins are still fitted and doing their job? if they aren't then the vehicle is defective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Stu said: How many of you have driven a large vehicle with these fitted V's with standard mirrors? I know people who have driven buses with these fitted and at first they was all the arguments against them then once out on the road those arguments faded away! They could actually see more and due to their design then stay cleaner than mirrors. The only concern about them is if the screens stop working but that is a vehicle defect and prohibition so should not be driven any further as per the requirements if a mirror gets knocked off And the screens are in a slightly different position so you have to get used to where they but most vehicles have mirrors in different places and when you can drive up to 5 or 6 different ones a day you quickly get used to them Exactly. How many people here actually have a class 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: My point is (and I’m not sure if it’s being deliberately missed cos people are bored) that if the end users- the lorry drivers who ACTUALLY USE THEM aren’t happy with say them (that they have blind spots and are poor in the dark) then they haven’t iron out the wrinkles (ie consulted the end users enough) and shouldn’t have put them in general release until that point. Of course these professional drivers who say they have weak spots could be wrong or making it up but I’d take their word over someone who doesn’t have a class one and hasnt used them. The problem you have is people don't like change and especially for technology and they will find any way they can to be obstructive! I see it on a daily basis at work myself. They create problems just for the sake of it. Our company has these across the country and the union was dead against them and as was a lot of drivers and before they was rolled out the union was invited to take a look and a drive in them once they was seen and driven for a period of time in all conditions they agreed they was better and once out in service the complaints have stopped and people actually prefer them. If they really was that bad there would be a lot more complaints than a few posts on Facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: Exactly. How many people here actually have a class 1? Why are we limiting at class 1? they are used on C CE D1 D1E D DE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Stu said: The problem you have is people don't like change and especially for technology and they will find any way they can to be obstructive! I see it on a daily basis at work myself. They create problems just for the sake of it. Our company has these across the country and the union was dead against them and as was a lot of drivers and before they was rolled out the union was invited to take a look and a drive in them once they was seen and driven for a period of time in all conditions they agreed they was better and once out in service the complaints have stopped and people actually prefer them. If they really was that bad there would be a lot more complaints than a few posts on Facebook @Slowlycatchymonkey they are actually designed to remove blind spots and follow the trailer arc as they turn, the cameras are designed to stay as clean as they can, they are heated, they have a night mode, the screens are brighter than the view from a conventional mirror. No system is perfect but anything can be made to look bad if you try hard enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Stu said: The problem you have is people don't like change and especially for technology and they will find any way they can to be obstructive! I see it on a daily basis at work myself. They create problems just for the sake of it. Our company has these across the country and the union was dead against them and as was a lot of drivers and before they was rolled out the union was invited to take a look and a drive in them once they was seen and driven for a period of time in all conditions they agreed they was better and once out in service the complaints have stopped and people actually prefer them. If they really was that bad there would be a lot more complaints than a few posts on Facebook Maybe and people are resistant to change especially it seems if it involves technology so yes it could all well be just a bit of newness. But fleets don’t replace their vehicles that often and the few on the road 2019 in a pandemic with empty motorways isn’t going to give you a clear picture. The pictures do show theres a blind spot at the front of the cab and thats what the initial warning fastbob posted was about. A blind spot that perhaps better consultations could have eliminated. Class 1 vehicles are a completely different class with good reason. I’ve driven 7 1/2 ton lorries and I wouldn’t presume for a moment to transfer that experience to an articulated lorry, I take the lorry drivers advice on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fro Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: My point is (and I’m not sure if it’s being deliberately missed cos people are bored) that if the end users- the lorry drivers who ACTUALLY USE THEM aren’t happy with say them (that they have blind spots and are poor in the dark) then they haven’t iron out the wrinkles (ie consulted the end users enough) and shouldn’t have put them in general release until that point. Of course these professional drivers who say they have weak spots could be wrong or making it up but I’d take their word over someone who doesn’t have a class one and hasnt used them. Alright, alright, settle down. No need for the passive aggressive overtones. You're making assumptions based on zero data. If you can get some data that shows the effect of this system on safety then you can make a substantive point either way. Until then you're just showering us with your opinions. Any change is subject to resistance (Kubler-Ross model for example) so naturally there will be those who don't like them because they're different from what they're used to, regardless of how good they are. Consider also that anything automotive is subject to a massive amount of testing by people who are experts in their field, not a bunch of jobsworths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 Many people are rightfully resistant to change because there is a gulf between the people that invent this rubbish and the people who have to live with it . And it isn't just cameras on lorries , it's every aspect of modern life . Do you think online banking was invented to improve your life ? No , it was invented so that hundreds of branches and thousands of bank workers could be closed down and given the sack . It's the same with loads of things . It's about squeezing an extra penny out of us so that people who have more money than you or I can possibly imagine get even richer . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: Maybe and people are resistant to change especially it seems if it involves technology so yes it could all well be just a bit of newness. But fleets don’t replace their vehicles that often and the few on the road 2019 in a pandemic with empty motorways isn’t going to give you a clear picture. The pictures do show theres a blind spot at the front of the cab and thats what the initial warning fastbob posted was about. A blind spot that perhaps better consultations could have eliminated. Class 1 vehicles are a completely different class with good reason. I’ve driven 7 1/2 ton lorries and I wouldn’t presume for a moment to transfer that experience to an articulated lorry, I take the lorry drivers advice on it. Using my 15 years experience of driving large vehicles day in day out you would be shocked at how many blind spots there is around a large vehicle yet these cameras are actually better but people say they are flawed. With that 15 years experience you learn to use your mirrors constantly as you are taught to by driving instructors including doing blind spot checks If a biker, cyclist or pedestrian is in a blind spot then that driver should have seen them well before they entered that blind spot and should also not move off etc until they can see them again if that driver has missed them then they are not paying attention to the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Mr Fro said: Alright, alright, settle down. No need for the passive aggressive overtones. You're making assumptions based on zero data. If you can get some data that shows the effect of this system on safety then you can make a substantive point either way. Until then you're just showering us with your opinions. Any change is subject to resistance (Kubler-Ross model for example) so naturally there will be those who don't like them because they're different from what they're used to, regardless of how good they are. Consider also that anything automotive is subject to a massive amount of testing by people who are experts in their field, not a bunch of jobsworths. Hmm who’s being passive aggressive and... may I suggest more than a little patronising. I’m not showering you with opinions, I’ve expressed one that’s clearly at odds with yours. It is absolutely based on zero data. As is any opinion given here. All I’ve said is that if the lorry drivers are demonstrating there’s a blind spot they have not done their consultations adequately because if they had it could have been addressed. This seems to have caused a barrage in my direction from people who don’t have a class 1. These brilliant experts (assuming the lorry drivers aren’t lying) have produced a mirror with a blind spot. Genius. Edited March 10, 2021 by Slowlycatchymonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Look at this blind spot that is no longer a blind spot!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Oh and I have lost a HGV in my mirrors before! it was hiding behind the mirror on a junction! With cameras I would have seen it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Hmm so providing an example of camaera working means you dismiss the lorry drivers that say it has faults. I’m out of this conversation it’s got silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 https://youtu.be/LYo3kORaXAo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: Hmm so providing an example of camaera working means you dismiss the lorry drivers that say it has faults. I’m out of this conversation it’s got silly. No I am highlighting the fact that removing the mirrors and replacing for cameras actually improves forward and side view for approaching junctions! but you twist that how you will! So we have two "drivers" that say they have faults! when clearly one picture is from the passenger side and the other is a post copied from facebook! for who all we know could be a 9 year old from timbuktu I know a lot of people who drive vehicles with these camera systems be it on a HGV or a bus and there is no complaints from them Supply us with evidence of this flaw as I am talking from experience here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, fastbob said: https://youtu.be/LYo3kORaXAo Has mirrors attached How is this relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, fastbob said: https://youtu.be/LYo3kORaXAo https://youtu.be/AD-B7UiJU24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, fastbob said: https://youtu.be/AD-B7UiJU24 That one has mirrors again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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