fastbob Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 ....COPIED AND PASTED..... A friend of mine, who is a lorry driver just shared this....... Please take note as we start to ride again. If you see a truck with no mirrors then it probably is equipped with a new camera system which appears to be slightly flawed. Take note and take care! Just a little heads up for you guys. Today I had the pleasure (not) of driving a new Merc truck fitted with mirror cameras, from a bikers point of view, they're bloody awful. Although you no longer have the big blindspot caused by the half-acre of plastic sticking out, which makes it hard to see approaching bikes on a roundabout, you now have quite a large area beside the cab that isn't covered by the wide-angle section of the mirror, and you could easily lose sight of a bike if you're not careful. It is also impossible to get a better view by moving your head, as it's like looking at the TV, no matter where you stand, the picture isn't going to change. Probably the worst bit though is the lack of eye contact, especially in slow moving traffic. With normal mirrors, I can see you, and you can see me, and that little bit of eye contact makes a massive difference. With the camera, you have no way of telling whether I've seen you or not, so it's best to assume that I haven't. So there you go, if a truck has cameras instead of mirrors, give it a bit more room, don't get anywhere near the corners of the cab, and never assume the driver knows that you're filtering up to the front of the queue. Stay safe 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Frog Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 It sometimes boggles my mind the things that get allowed ! This, smart motorways and other jaw dropping examples and then perfectly rational and sensible things like driving tests get meddled with purely it seems to make a buck. Thanks for the heads up @fastbob Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Another thing I can't be doing with is the widely differing styles of indicator that modern cars seem to be displaying . The ones consisting of rows of LEDs that light up in succession do my head in . I end up looking at them for a split second longer that I ought to just to see what they are doing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Frog Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Totally agree with you Bob. One of my friends who is also a lorry driver was questioning the legality of the indicators that turn out side or daytime running lights. Also those that turn on fog or spots as the car is turned. Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mississippi Bullfrog Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Quite a few modern vehicles have indicators that are obscured by daytime running lights which can make them difficult to see. It seems fashion is more important than function. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggie Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 @Mississippi Bullfrog Loads of cars now have difficult to see indicators. I find it strange when I see an older car and its so easy to spot the big rectangular blinking light! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxrob Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said: Quite a few modern vehicles have indicators that are obscured by daytime running lights which can make them difficult to see. It seems fashion is more important than function. Ta for the heads up Bob. MB, I agree that on modern cars the indicators are very hard to see, you have a spit second to scan the car and se if they are indicating, luckily for a long time now i have not trusted anyone to indicate correctly and have dodged a few bullets as a consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I don’t know if indicators are really a help or a hindrance. After riding in a country where they only used to let the person behind you know it’s ok for you to overtake (which at first is completely alien) you discover any vehicle can go in any direction and you ride accordingly. You can easily tell where someone’s going cos the vehicle wheels point that way. First ride back in the UK indicators seemed quite dangerous because the person may well not go in the direction being indicated and you may well make a mistake assuming they are. I know this sounds unlikely but I bet anyone else who’s ridden in a country where indicators (and most road rules) aren’t used will have wondered the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Merc trucks are doing this as are lexis and Honda and no doubt many other manufacturers if it's deemed a must have thing, it's probably going to be linked to blind spot too with warnings, if it is will probably be safer than mirrors. The side detection on our juke is much better than mirrors alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: I don’t know if indicators are really a help or a hindrance. After riding in a country where they only used to let the person behind you know it’s ok for you to overtake (which at first is completely alien) you discover any vehicle can go in any direction and you ride accordingly. You can easily tell where someone’s going cos the vehicle wheels point that way. First ride back in the UK indicators seemed quite dangerous because the person may well not go in the direction being indicated and you may well make a mistake assuming they are. I know this sounds unlikely but I bet anyone else who’s ridden in a country where indicators (and most road rules) aren’t used will have wondered the same. With indicators when ever possible I do not arrive at a junction at same time as another vehicle, if I do have to I try having a escape plan. That way they will off made their decision before I get into predicament, mainly at moment it seems to be pull out first think later. Presently curtesy on the roads is diabolical. One I face on my commute for work and dog walking is here, there is certainly a silver BMW a Black Range Rover and a Silver Discovery that play chicken following the red Arrow (Same junction both pictures) at speed its a 40mph road. Any on coming traffic has to brake HARD, one guy I beeped having had to come to a near stop for him (dogs yelping in the boot) jumped on the brakes stopped. Then started shouting abuse at me I was not even doing 40. After that my stomach goes in my mouth every time I go to that bend particularly on the bike, its a matter of when not if I will be in or at an accident there... Edited March 7, 2021 by onesea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 43 minutes ago, onesea said: With indicators when ever possible I do not arrive at a junction at same time as another vehicle, if I do have to I try having a escape plan. That way they will off made their decision before I get into predicament, mainly at moment it seems to be pull out first think later. Presently curtesy on the roads is diabolical. One I face on my commute for work and dog walking is here, there is certainly a silver BMW a Black Range Rover and a Silver Discovery that play chicken following the red Arrow (Same junction both pictures) at speed its a 40mph road. Any on coming traffic has to brake HARD, one guy I beeped having had to come to a near stop for him (dogs yelping in the boot) jumped on the brakes stopped. Then started shouting abuse at me I was not even doing 40. After that my stomach goes in my mouth every time I go to that bend particularly on the bike, its a matter of when not if I will be in or at an accident there... Assumption is a tricky thing isn’t it. You know the junction so don’t assume you having priority will keep you safe which I suppose is something most bikers get used to very quickly. I don’t see there’s a lots you can do about it other than slowing just in case. Roundabouts are the classic one, your sitting there waiting and waiting for a big enough gap and someone’s indicating left to exit before you which would leave the way clear - so long as the left indicator means they’re really going left so... do you, don’t you? You know it’s a risk when your not certain of their course but most of us risk it sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabethf Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said: I don’t know if indicators are really a help or a hindrance. After riding in a country where they only used to let the person behind you know it’s ok for you to overtake (which at first is completely alien) you discover any vehicle can go in any direction and you ride accordingly. You can easily tell where someone’s going cos the vehicle wheels point that way. First ride back in the UK indicators seemed quite dangerous because the person may well not go in the direction being indicated and you may well make a mistake assuming they are. I know this sounds unlikely but I bet anyone else who’s ridden in a country where indicators (and most road rules) aren’t used will have wondered the same. I can agree with this as it happened to me on my bike test those couple of years back (and meant I failed, still a bit bitter about it) Waiting at a roundabout to go straight over. Guy also waiting at the roundabout to my right, he was indication to take the first exit (basically the road I was coming from). I waited for him to move off as we approached at the same time - he came to a complete stop despite nothing coming so i decided i would make the first move (this bit isnt really that important as he still hesitated long enough that I was clear of him despite what he did next). He do not take the first exit like his indicator suggested. He didnt even get into the correct lane. He went ALL THE WAY ROUND the roundabout, on the outside lane, on a left indicator. So if we trusted indicator alone he basically put everyone already on the roundabout plus anyone getting ready to enter the roundabout at risk. I didnt notice until i was shoulder checking noticed the car was now behind me, and thinking 'why are you still here?' Its a hard lesson but why i hold back slightly sometimes as i dont trust people's intentions on indicators alone! in this case cant even trust road position lol! Edited March 8, 2021 by elizabethf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, elizabethf said: I can agree with this as it happened to me on my bike test those couple of years back (and meant I failed, still a bit bitter about it) Waiting at a roundabout to go straight over. Guy also waiting at the roundabout to my right, he was indication to take the first exit (basically the road I was coming from). I waited for him to move off as we approached at the same time - he came to a complete stop despite nothing coming so i decided i would make the first move (this bit isnt really that important as he still hesitated long enough that I was clear of him despite what he did next). He do not take the second exit like his indicator suggested. He didnt even get into the correct lane. He went ALL THE WAY ROUND the roundabout, on the outside lane, on a left indicator. So if we trusted indicator alone he basically put everyone already on the roundabout plus anyone getting ready to enter the roundabout at risk. I didnt notice until i was shoulder checking noticed the car was now behind me, and thinking 'why are you still here?' Its a hard lesson but why i hold back slightly sometimes as i dont trust people's intentions on indicators alone! in this case cant even trust road position lol! Absolutely right , trust nobody . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Assume every other road user is hell bent on trying to kill you and you won't go far wrong. Pessimists are rarely disappointed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 And never , ever , respond to a beconing gesture from another road user including other motorcyclists . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 24 minutes ago, fastbob said: And never , ever , respond to a beconing gesture from another road user including other motorcyclists . I do sometimes, gingerly with extreme caution on the understanding if it goes wrong it’s entirely my fault. Say if I was stuck at a junction for a long time and the vehicle that flashed had slowed enough to mean I could pull into the gap - but it has to have slowed to the point that regardless of whether it continued to slow or sped up I could still safely get out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just seen this on facecrap and thought I'd share. Fish 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 and in the dry(ish) Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Frog Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Thanks @Fish for posting that ! Surely this can`t be allowed to go ahead ffs they wont even be able to see who they have sideswiped on the inside of a smart motorway. Am I alone in thinking this needs looking at? Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Ian Frog said: Thanks @Fish for posting that ! Surely this can`t be allowed to go ahead ffs they wont even be able to see who they have sideswiped on the inside of a smart motorway. Am I alone in thinking this needs looking at? Cheers Ian Go ahead? , Mercedes brought them out in 2019, they have a night mode and need cleaning now and then and if your parked up and rain is belting off them the picture can be crap. The camera is heated if temp drops too low, the system follows the rear of the trailer reducing blind spots. No idea what's going on with the ones above maybe it's not a merc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 If the lorry drivers using them don’t think they’re safe then no matter how clever the design or how much fuel they save (up to 3% I understand?!) they should finish working on them with real drivers before putting them on general release. Making changes after the 20th cyclists/motorcyclists gets squashed because of a blind spot is arrogant to say the least. Personally I’m fed up with technology and design that’s not been real world tested. You pick something up and it becomes clear they didn’t even bother to consult the users. It’s a rubbish approach. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Frog Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Bender said: Go ahead? , Mercedes brought them out in 2019, they have a night mode and need cleaning now and then and if your parked up and rain is belting off them the picture can be crap. The camera is heated if temp drops too low, the system follows the rear of the trailer reducing blind spots. No idea what's going on with the ones above maybe it's not a merc? Wow ! I didn`t realise they had been about that long. My Class 1 lapsed some time ago I am afraid, those ones in the post don`t look that safe to me but maybe not represntative? Cheers Ian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 This is a classic case of ‘Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’ Its probably justified through an infinitesimal increase in fuel economy due to the reduced drag caused by the old mirrors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mickly said: This is a classic case of ‘Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’ Its probably justified through an infinitesimal increase in fuel economy due to the reduced drag caused by the old mirrors 1.5% on fuel if merc are to be believed and at over 1400Ltrs of fuel per fill up its probably not to be ignored . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowlycatchymonkey Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Bender said: 1.5% on fuel if merc are to be believed and at over 1400Ltrs of fuel per fill up its probably not to be ignored . It is if people die unnecessarily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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