Life saver neck mobility on a sports bike

[Interference Fit]

One thing I've noticed going from an upright naked bike to a more leant forward CBR is that when trying to execute life savers, the chin area of my helmet hits my shoulders preventiung my turning my head as far as I'd like to perform life savers.

 

Has anyone else experienced this and is there a prescribed technique to overcome?

 

Even raising my head as much as possible doesn't make enough of a difference. 

[Gerontious]

You can buy stick-on blind spot mirrors that go on your.. err.. mirrors. few quid the pair from Ebay.

 

just get into the hang of using them.

 

alternatively at a standstill work out exactly where your blind spot is.. and see if you can see it. it could be that you are overdoing it. maybe.

[bonio]

Years since I had a sportsbike, but to look to the right don't you just tuck your left shoulder down, raise the right one a bit? Unlike a naked, you shouldn't be twisting your neck much.

[keith1200rs]

I think the important thing is you are checking your blind spot, not replacing your mirrors. As @Gerontioussays, you need to know where you are checking.

[Interference Fit]

I'll make a conscious effort to lower my shoulder and see what happens.

 

I'm still fresh from my MOD2 lessons, so for example when turning right from a major into a minor road, I'm muscle memorised to look over my right shoulder before I commit to the turn, but I can't turn my head enough to be fully confident a car is not about to take me out. It was fine on the naked, but being bent forward, my helmet can't rotate enough.

[RideWithStyles]

Raising you head wont do because the more arced back the head is the less the movement you have because of the spine and neck bone wont allow it, they only have so much movement with the axis amd little sticky out bit at the back let alone the muscles...

 

so one thing i also noticed from a previous picture is the bars are too narrow and 

So acute to the tank for your body that why your outside palm naturally wants to sit ontop and infront of the outside grip because your body wants a flatter bar to grip to... which also makes your elbows stick out and hunch your shoulders and with tour height and spine length is pirching you over but very high up making the lifesaver nearly impossible even if you have a neck like michael van de mark if you could defy medical frets like Tombs off xfiles.
 

dropping shoulders just to try that will make you sort of swing on the bars as tour already baring down on the things with your height plus on a sports bike even a lazy one with tyres they dont need much push on the bars to start turning...

 

also your levers could do with lowering abit more so your dont have to roll to grab it which is bad let alone inexperienced panic braking, the same if not a bit more for the rear brake lever be better to your ackle, which should will let you nknee a touch lower to get a natural grip...

Edited November 10, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[Interference Fit]

1 hour ago, RideWithStyles said:

Raising you head wont do because the more arced back the head is the less the movement you have because of the spine and neck bone wont allow it, they only have so much movement with the axis amd little sticky out bit at the back let alone the muscles...

 

so one thing i also noticed from a previous picture is the bars are too narrow and 

So acute to the tank for your body that why your outside palm naturally wants to sit ontop and infront of the outside grip because your body wants a flatter bar to grip to... which also makes your elbows stick out and hunch your shoulders and with tour height and spine length is pirching you over but very high up making the lifesaver nearly impossible even if you have a neck like michael van de mark if you could defy medical frets like Tombs off xfiles.
 

dropping shoulders just to try that will make you sort of swing on the bars as tour already baring down on the things with your height plus on a sports bike even a lazy one with tyres they dont need much push on the bars to start turning...

 

also your levers could do with lowering abit more so your dont have to roll to grab it which is bad let alone inexperienced panic braking, the same if not a bit more for the rear brake lever be better to your ackle, which should will let you nknee a touch lower to get a natural grip...

 

So not much I can do, huh?  (I've lowered the levers since that pic).

 

I'm bringing you bike shopping with me in the spring! 

 

Currently considering - Multistrada V2S, Moto Guzzi Stelvio and if I do go naked, maybe the new Duke 990, CB1000 Hornet or Harley Fat Bob or maybe the Hypermotard although that is a little 'youthful' for my age category. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Interference Fit

[fullscreenaging]

Make sure you test ride them all and try and push the dealers for as long as possible. Some only want you taking them out for an hour and that’s just not enough time to make a decision. You need at least a full day so you can get in every type of road. 

[RideWithStyles]

On 10/11/2023 at 18:07, Interference Fit said:

 

So not much I can do, huh?  (I've lowered the levers since that pic).

 

I'm bringing you bike shopping with me in the spring! 

 

Currently considering - Multistrada V2S, Moto Guzzi Stelvio and if I do go naked, maybe the new Duke 990, CB1000 Hornet or Harley Fat Bob or maybe the Hypermotard although that is a little 'youthful' for my age category. 

First two will be good contenders off the bat for first look especially if they have adjustable seats as std or purchase separately, give you options.

You will fit a hypermotard or better the strada as its less focused machine but both are more then enough for your growing experience and i would change the tyres to good sport touring tyres first thing on my ownership but will it be abit too focused? That's something only you will know, on how your gonna plan the use the bike.

Motards small tank will only bug if you plan to do lots of long distance rides into very rural areas and different riding style you might or not like??

 

its a personal thing, these are not a knee out sort of bike but more a sit on the front inside seat and push you leg out front to encourage turn consistently at any real speed or confidence at really slow and tight corners as you keep yourself more upright/level and throw the bike about abit more to load the forks and front tyre.
if you try knee out it sort of behaves differently (sort of throws mild shapes) and thinks "WTF are you doing???" Thats what i found out on the ktms. iLl be surprised if the Duc is any different. Once you click with them its actually easier and pretty fun. 
 

the harley, short legged and long armed people fit better in general, bit like sitting on small toilet or kids chair while trying to play snooker and feet drums.
Your upper body shouldnt be to bothered, it will arch you back a little somewhat  depending on bar choices this mmight not bother you though but you'll have to consider your legs, especially the ankles for the feet control as they'll be acute so the upper anckle will have to pull up when there isnt much left to give, unless you are a ski jumper?
is there enough adjustments in the foot levers for you to be comfortable?  

Maybe another harley that might give better choices but I aint looking through all that right now.
 

 

[RideWithStyles]

Oh and p.s looking at your picture on a different thread you defo need more preload on that shock....

and if it has a damping adjustment turn that in abit too (slow/harder).

Edited November 14, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[Interference Fit]

1 hour ago, RideWithStyles said:

Oh and p.s looking at your picture on a different thread you defo need more preload on that shock....

and if it has a damping adjustment turn that in abit too (slow/harder).

 

Pre-load only. 

 

Is there a prescribed method to assess where it needs to be set?

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Interference Fit

[RideWithStyles]

Check after when ridden to get the oil/gas and linkages warmed up. Now i say this route as what you should do to all of your bikes if you dont know what or why.

 

Stand on left side of bike slightly more the seat, this is SAG test as a start point: Tilt bike level and raise the rear of the bike by the pillion grab rails. If you can raise the back of the bike (within its suspension stroke) to its top out point alot (more than 10mm) the starting preload is not enough, if when u try to raise it but there is no suspension stroke but ur actually picking the bike up(suspension top out) the preload is too much or possibly the spring is too stiff but thats hardly ever unless ur really light weight.

 

see what its like with you on...on its side stand measure between two fixed points ie wheel axle and a sticker or a body work crease on the tail, Tilt up right and push down on the seat to make sure the suspension isn't sticking then sit on the bike upright with normal kit on, best if you have the help of the wife and measure the same points again- how much more did the bike sag when you got on? between 30 to 40 is considered good guide for average road use depending on shock setup and linkage, so with your 127mm wheel stroke but shock is 43mm stroke and a direct link id keep it on the tighter side of figures but id say this for general use case if sags more than 40mm (add more preload) id less than 20mm (lessen preload).

[RideWithStyles]

So you dont want to be using more than 1/3 of the stroke with u on it.

when you go on a normal ride, look at the shocks piston shaft. if tou cant see a tiny fresh ring of dirt on the shaft and more than likly you should at this time of year, odds are your blowing throw the whole lot and hitting the bump stop, add preload. If you see a ring thats less than 3/4 down then less preload, thats with your use case with this bike as is for what little adjustment you have on this bike.

[Interference Fit]

Thanks - will investigate and report findings. 

[Interference Fit]

On 14/11/2023 at 13:47, RideWithStyles said:

Check after when ridden to get the oil/gas and linkages warmed up. Now i say this route as what you should do to all of your bikes if you dont know what or why.

 

Stand on left side of bike slightly more the seat, this is SAG test as a start point: Tilt bike level and raise the rear of the bike by the pillion grab rails. If you can raise the back of the bike (within its suspension stroke) to its top out point alot (more than 10mm) the starting preload is not enough, if when u try to raise it but there is no suspension stroke but ur actually picking the bike up(suspension top out) the preload is too much or possibly the spring is too stiff but thats hardly ever unless ur really light weight.

 

see what its like with you on...on its side stand measure between two fixed points ie wheel axle and a sticker or a body work crease on the tail, Tilt up right and push down on the seat to make sure the suspension isn't sticking then sit on the bike upright with normal kit on, best if you have the help of the wife and measure the same points again- how much more did the bike sag when you got on? between 30 to 40 is considered good guide for average road use depending on shock setup and linkage, so with your 127mm wheel stroke but shock is 43mm stroke and a direct link id keep it on the tighter side of figures but id say this for general use case if sags more than 40mm (add more preload) id less than 20mm (lessen preload).

 

Had to wait until my wife was available and after a ride, but the results are:

 

Static sag just under 10mm.

Rider sag between 26mm and 30mm (did it 3 times and it falls within that range).

[RideWithStyles]

Thanks!

was that with feet up? And full weight bearing? 26-30mm from bike static and not from top out?
Cool sounds somewhere about last piece is how much of the shock shaft is clean? so this will help answer is the shock valving Working early and maxes early?

when warm, push it down hard and when its returning through the stroke is it slow like bread being squeezed or fast like its pushing your hands back faster than you and does it make it giggle at the top (look at the exhaust tip orreg plate), or inbetween like its fast at first but slows as it comes near the top?
reason i said things to check is the wave wear pattern on the tyre from the picture of the tyre suggests its bouncing about too much when lent over and your running high tyre pressures so that rules the oem tyres out that.

with a more adjustable shock you could slow the damping down.

Edited November 16, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[Interference Fit]

Sag was fully kitted up, immediately after the ride with just the slightest tippy toe side to side pressure (grams) to keep me balanced but with absolutely next to no weight on the floor, hence did it three times. Most of the variance was a slight paralax error on the tape and human variance. 

 

No wear pattern on the tyre(s) and feels well damped with hardly any perceptible 'bounce', just a nice, smooth, controlled reaction.

 

Kind of feels fine as is.

 

Enjoyed the ride out but constantly reminded 'it's a bent forward sports bike' every time I have to consciously relax my hand grip and take the weight off my wrists, which in turn forces my core and knees to tense and brace to support my bent forward upper body weight.

 

I fully get this is just how sport bikes are and it's not a problem as such, other than at the end of every ride my internal dialogue says "Next bike must be a completely upright riding position so I don't have to think about relaxing and taking weight off my wrists)".

 

But to balance this, the amount of people that glance, then glance again at the bike and give it a good looking over when in traffic reminds me it's a stunner (to me, anyway) and makes me feel special on it. Next bike must also do this. No boring or practical solutions. Needs to be special, cool and upright / comfortable.  

[RideWithStyles]

Good! all the bits of information will help you figure things out, now you have a reference to work out what you need to make things better and easier for yourself.

[Interference Fit]

3 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

Good! all the bits of information will help you figure things out, now you have a reference to work out what you need to make things better and easier for yourself.

 

Indeed. New 2024 Africa Twin gives me the 'wows', especially as it now comes with a more road focussed 19" front wheel. Quite pricey though. 

[Gerontious]

16 hours ago, Interference Fit said:

 

Indeed. New 2024 Africa Twin gives me the 'wows', especially as it now comes with a more road focussed 19" front wheel. Quite pricey though. 

 

I have the 1000cc version and the 21" front wheel didn't bother me in the slightest. I could very easily have changed wheel size at the time I swapped the original wheels for tubeless. But, I didn't see the point... actually the only point in its favour was widening the choice of tyres. 19" are far more common than 21".

As with every new bike - you adjust. your riding style might change a little and you may not even be aware of this change - it can be completely unconscious. The only time I think about the size of my front wheel is when its time to replace the rubber.

 

If you do go down the 'touring' bike route then you might be interested in our week in Germany next September. Always great fun. Though to be fair having a 'touring' focussed bike is not necessary. just strap a bag to the rear seat with a few changes of clothing and you're done.

 

[Interference Fit]

6 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

 

I have the 1000cc version and the 21" front wheel didn't bother me in the slightest. I could very easily have changed wheel size at the time I swapped the original wheels for tubeless. But, I didn't see the point... actually the only point in its favour was widening the choice of tyres. 19" are far more common than 21".

As with every new bike - you adjust. your riding style might change a little and you may not even be aware of this change - it can be completely unconscious. The only time I think about the size of my front wheel is when its time to replace the rubber.

 

If you do go down the 'touring' bike route then you might be interested in our week in Germany next September. Always great fun. Though to be fair having a 'touring' focussed bike is not necessary. just strap a bag to the rear seat with a few changes of clothing and you're done.

 

Thanks for the reply.

Touring is not on my agenda specifically and my needs (desires) out of a bike are somewhat conflicted - trying to find the right combination of cool, good looking, not retro, comfortable and the right quality/price ratio might be difficult (impossible?).

[Gerontious]

17 minutes ago, Interference Fit said:

Thanks for the reply.

Touring is not on my agenda specifically and my needs (desires) out of a bike are somewhat conflicted - trying to find the right combination of cool, good looking, not retro, comfortable and the right quality/price ratio might be difficult (impossible?).

 

I wonder why you are even looking at other bikes when you have only had the Honda for 5 minutes. are you dissatisfied with it already?

 

What we do isn't really a'tour' - its a riding holiday. spending 5 days doing what most of us can't do due to work etc. riding for pleasure for 5 solid days.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Gerontious

[KiwiBob]

[Interference Fit]

3 hours ago, Gerontious said:

 

I wonder why you are even looking at other bikes when you have only had the Honda for 5 minutes. are you dissatisfied with it already?

 

What we do isn't really a'tour' - its a riding holiday. spending 5 days doing what most of us can't do due to work etc. riding for pleasure for 5 solid days.

 

CBR is great, just conscious of the bent forward riding position might not be for me long term, not for my main bike anyway. I'm also probably just on the verge of being too big for it.

For here and now, no regrets at all - I just like looking forward and planning what next. I'm not one for keeping any vehicle very long - so many to enjoy!