ZZR1200 Rough at 2-3000 RPM, possible diagnosis.

[Simon Davey]

Just thought I'd drop this thread here, rather than continue to hijack the thread about the Honda Blackbird.

My bike screams along if I give that wrist a twist, it's nice (I think) that at 5k onwards, I actually have to physically pull my backside forward to keep a good position.

However, at 2-3000 RPM, if I try to pootle along and hold the throttle position through a 30Mph village or town, it just splutters and complains.

 

One suggestion was that, as the temperature gauge barely moves, the thermostat was likely stuck open.

I stripped the fairings off, drained the coolant, then got to thermostat which was perfectly OK . I replaced it anyway, and refilled with coolant.

Got the engine running, and after 5 minutes of idle the gauge was up a fair bit, another 5 minutes and it was a 1/3rd of the way up.

This was indoors though, and riding out a couple of days later, the gauge was in it's usual very low position. It's obviously designed to keep cool under harder working and hotter conditions.

 

Moving on to the next ride.

I always start her from cold on the centre stand and wait until the choke is off before I ride away, this gives me time to get my crash hat on etc.

 

So here's the diagnosis, for some reason whilst still running with the choke on, I decided to move her, and when I steered the rev's shot up!!

Fliipin' 'eck, it didn't happen without the choke on, but with the choke pulled by even a tiny amount, the rev's increased.

 

So when looking at the cables, steering to the right pulls the cables really tightly around the left fork as they disappear under the tank.

I gave the choke cable a right good wiggle, and there was a clunky/clinky sound, so maybe it's seated itself. I'll found out when I have a ride on Saturday.

 

I'm now convinced the choke has been on all the time, just by a small amount and enough to be an issue. It ties in very nicely with the symptoms.

I've got it booked in at Frank's Motorcycles near Colchester in a couple of weeks, fingers crossed Kris will sort it.

I don't have the inclination to remove the tank and sort it myself just yet 

If you've read this far, thanks for bearing with me.

Edited February 22 by Simon Davey

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I hope you get it sorted. I was just thinking that anything under 3000rpm is probably going to feel lumpy. 

[Simon Davey]

4 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I hope you get it sorted. I was just thinking that anything under 3000rpm is probably going to feel lumpy. 

 

Thanks @Mississippi Bullfrog It's funny you say that, because the 4-5 rides I've had on the bike, I've always thought the same. 

However, when I suggested this to a chap at a local bike shop (that will only take BMW in the workshop) he said nope, it should be smooth from bottom to top.

Either way, when this issue is resolved, I might take advantage of all that torque and horses, and change the sprockets to a slightly higher gearing, that'll reduce acceleration, but make it a bit more "touring" to ride.

[Bianco2564]

Worth getting the carbs balanced.

My R1 complains if I'm at less than 2500 rpm in a high gear, gets all snatchy, drop it down a gear and its like a different bike.

[Simon Davey]

25 minutes ago, Bianco2564 said:

Worth getting the carbs balanced.

My R1 complains if I'm at less than 2500 rpm in a high gear, gets all snatchy, drop it down a gear and its like a different bike.

Thanks, balancing may be worth while. It's going to a expert in bikes of this style/age.

 

[Simon Davey]

Sooooo.. 

There am I, convinced the tension in the choke cable is causing my problem. I'm fiddling about and stroking the tank (as you do) and I realise that the handle bar risers for my clip-ons are causing the tension by pulling all the cables and wiring up another 32mm they weren't supposed to. 

Went to my brilliant local hardware shop and got 4off 8x30mm stainless Allen bolts. Only took 20 minutes to remove both risers and get the bars secured back down. 

What a difference! 

When I started her up to go out for a ride, I had to adjust the idle because when I let the choke off, it was fully off. 

 

Took her out for a couple of hours and hey presto, complete shite, in fact a little worse

 

I'm going to leave it in the garage until the appointment it has with a proper mechanic. 

At least I've ruled out the choke, but as it's now slightly worse, the issue is looking like carburation. 

 

[RideWithStyles]

so you messed about adding stuff to a normal bike that it was designed for originally and thought it would be fine? adjusted it for those mods and not of course its not right? 

is that correct?

 

maybi suggest something.. hard to judge if its ok on the web but have you checked tps sensor? that can give poor running low down if it doesn't know wtf is going on. weirdly it its harder for an engine pootling to know inside at low revs than higher up the revs at peak.... just throwing one out

 

[Simon Davey]

30 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

so you messed about adding stuff to a normal bike that it was designed for originally and thought it would be fine? adjusted it for those mods and not of course its not right? 

is that correct?

 

Nope, wasn't me guv

The bar risers were already on there, to be honest, removing them has given me slightly more room and a little more comfort. Surprising for just 32mm difference. I'm now positioned how the designers, intended of course. 

It was only my 5th ride on it, so I'm still settling in to it. 

[Simon Davey]

38 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

 

maybi suggest something.. hard to judge if its ok on the web but have you checked tps sensor? that can give poor running low down if it doesn't know wtf is going on. weirdly it its harder for an engine pootling to know inside at low revs than higher up the revs at peak.... just throwing one out

 

 

TPS, Is that tyre pressure, temperature maybe? 

 

It's 19 years old and has carb's, not sure it's that sensitive. 

Thanks for your interest dear chap. 

[rob m]

17 minutes ago, Simon Davey said:

 

TPS, Is that tyre pressure, temperature maybe? 

 

It's 19 years old and has carb's, not sure it's that sensitive. 

Thanks for your interest dear chap. 

He probably meant throttle position sensor.

 

As you have it booked in for work anyway, let them resolve the issue and get it back in a rideable state. 

[RideWithStyles]

well you are excused! . well it my have worked for the previous owner if they were taller or longer spine than yours? if your shorter in spine and arms that will make sense to remove them.

 

sorry correct, as the TPS can have a bearing on the low throttle even if it not completely broken or the wire is still getting a signal of what it thinks is correct it wont throw up a fault...its a long shot without l

testing it further.

 

agreed - get it looked at and see what they come up with.

Edited February 24 by RideWithStyles

[Simon Davey]

16 minutes ago, rob m said:

He probably meant throttle position sensor.

 

As you have it booked in for work anyway, let them resolve the issue and get it back in a rideable state. 

 

Yes, that's the plan. 

Oddly enough, the more I do to this bike, and the more I ride it, even with issues, the more I think it's the dogs nadgers. 

That acceleration is addictive... 

[RideWithStyles]

human adaptability, your already adapting and getting use to working around its faults...if some one else jumped on it they'd probably say its broken and HTH have you managed to ride that thing?

[Simon Davey]

11 minutes ago, RideWithStyles said:

 HTH have you managed to ride that thing?

 

Fast

[Simon Davey]

Update.... 

 

Took it out for a 1 hour diagnosis session. 

It's booked in for 2 weeks time. 

He took it out for 15 minutes whilst I stuffed my face with eggs, baon and sausage etc. 

The guy is 100% certain it's the idle jets. He explained the the idle jets don't just deal with idle, they look after the lower demand up to about 4K,then the main jets kick in. Also suggested new spark plugs, and with a bike at 19 years old (which mine is) , he'd like to nip the ends off the HTC leads as they're bound to be slightly corroded. 

He thought it wasn't so bad, but could definitely be improved. 

Also pointed out that my tyres are shite, and the raised stipes made the handling really twitchy, and I'd have a better chance of becoming confident if they were replaced. He says the Michelin Pilot are prone to wearing this way, so new tyres will be fitted too. Bridgestone I think. 

Thanks for asking. 

Had 90 minutes of his time, very relaxed and friendly place, didn't cost me a penny (yet).

Edited March 6 by Simon Davey

[Guest]

Here's my 50 pence worth, any 19 year so called mechanic has barley got out of his nappy's he will spend more time wa*kin off looking at AI generated porn than thinking about your beloved bike, let my guess its somewhere like quick fit or something similar, 

you need to do a bit of research on what tryers you want for the riding you do..

you can buy vacuum sets to synchronize your carbs do a tube search

(yet) being the optative word. sorry for the rant

[Simon Davey]

7 hours ago, Vic101 said:

Here's my 50 pence worth, any 19 year so called mechanic has barley got out of his nappy's he will spend more time wa*kin off looking at AI generated porn than thinking about your beloved bike, let my guess its somewhere like quick fit or something similar, 

you need to do a bit of research on what tryers you want for the riding you do..

you can buy vacuum sets to synchronize your carbs do a tube search

(yet) being the optative word. sorry for the rant

 

Yeah, sorry, my bad. 

The bike is 19.

 

The mechanic was Kawasaki trained, and had been a Japanese mechanic for decades, he was even made a motorcycle mechanic in the German army when he did his national service. 

Just one of those guys you can talk to, and be 200% confident he knows exactly what he is doing. 

So I'll edit my post and definitely trust him. 

Edited March 6 by Simon Davey

[Nick the wanderer]

You'll probably get a few recommendations for tyres now. Do you have any idea of the type of riding you will be doing, touring, blasts up to Scotland, down the village to the chip shop? Could be worth a little think. I used to use Battlaxs on the Suzuki I thought they were ok. I myself don't do millions of miles these days (just enough to get my fix) so I use sticky tyres, I go grip over longevity.

[S-Westerly]

I go for grip out of choice but longevity has some place. The Road Pilot 6 I had on the Ducati eere pretty good but I didn't have them long before I traded the bike. Heard since that for some people they can have a weird wear cycle. The Metzlers I had before were excellent until they weren't.  Literally in about 500 miles they'd go from being OK to not at all. Interesting to see how the Pirellis go on the Guzzi. So far I like them . Pirelli and Metzler are the same company now anyway.

[Simon Davey]

1 hour ago, Nick the wanderer said:

You'll probably get a few recommendations for tyres now. Do you have any idea of the type of riding you will be doing, touring, blasts up to Scotland, down the village to the chip shop? Could be worth a little think. I used to use Battlaxs on the Suzuki I thought they were ok. I myself don't do millions of miles these days (just enough to get my fix) so I use sticky tyres, I go grip over longevity.

 

We chatted about it, my riding is pleasure riding (when the roads dry up) so it'll be a real mix of country A&B roads, with the odd stretch of motorway. 

Mostly sub 60Mph on non motorway. 

I've met people that are passionate about bikes, but this guy just seemed to "know". 

I'll go with whatever he recommends. 

He was also saying he does not understand why riders go for wider than factory fit when it comes to tyre changes, just stick with what the manufacturers went for, it's part of the bike design. 

Edited March 6 by Simon Davey

[Simon Davey]

26 minutes ago, S-Westerly said:

I go for grip out of choice but longevity has some place. The Road Pilot 6 I had on the Ducati eere pretty good but I didn't have them long before I traded the bike. Heard since that for some people they can have a weird wear cycle. The Metzlers I had before were excellent until they weren't.  Literally in about 500 miles they'd go from being OK to not at all. Interesting to see how the Pirellis go on the Guzzi. So far I like them . Pirelli and Metzler are the same company now anyway.

Mine were road pilot 4, as you say, they have been known to wear oddly. 

It must depend on the rider surely? 

We need tyres that suit the bike and the rider, but who the heck can afford to switch tyres on a regular basis. 

My missus is offering to pay for mine as a birthday present

[S-Westerly]

I switch tyres when they are worn to the wear marks.

[RideWithStyles]

sounds logical from your mechanic.

Also his thoughts on the wider tyre choice is correct to the mainstream of people, the theory only works if you bike/tyre/style needs to or can make best use case of-if on track with a particular riding pattern then some bikes/riders could benefit but for the road not much point unless you had a kawa that ran 120/65/17 front.

 

Personally not a fan of Bridgestones at all and one i will not tolerate them, the carcass is too stiff, compounds too hard and doesnt like anything below 14*c and about 40miles to get them to temp and wear can be seen still if the suspension cant be tuned to adapt to it.

not a crap tyre but certainly one that doesn't work for me or the bikes setting to make it work.

 

as a rule the more snipes or complex the tread the more movement ( wear ) it naturally allows unless its bridged or supported by the tread. which is great in the cold and wet but can be a problem in the hot.

 

pr3 had bad shark or scalloped wear primarily due to the simple one way tread pattern design, PR4s are worst for weird wear patterns due to the more complex design, if you suffer woth this then there are two ways to help address it, pressure and suspension settings.

I dont mind michelins but not my first preference as if i couldnt get metz/pirellis/Avon.

soft carcass can give treads a harder time but if your not taking attention to the tyres requirement or suspension your more likely to make it far worse. 

 

so take the time to understand what YOU want / need from the tyre of priorities. then research what that means to you? 

 

so to round it off:

soft carcass tyre (michelin and pirelli etc) - quite smoother ride to soaks up bumps, can put more pressure into the tyre to handle more weight or commute more or to cool the tyre down etc- negative effect is that they can be less communication of letting you know what it is doing. more sensitive to pressure loss or increase.

 

Hard carcass (dunlop and bridgestone etc) just the opposite. can be crashy,plastic and shouts at you if you like it of not...

 

Tread- more snipes/cuts better in wet but in the hot can heat up more -and increase wear.

also to note dont be too concerned about having the latest "greatest" tyre spec over ones that are a good few years old (or down the tier ranking as its also put) in their basic design is still great even 10 or more years ago and made the same way as before, if in fact probably the best as its had many years of production running and tweaking! 

ie a road 6 over road4/3 or 

Rosso 4 over the 3/2 etc.

 

the only thing you need to worry about older generations of tyres is making sure they're as fresh as possible because most are still made to this day they only just stopped making mich road 2 (great tyre) and still on the 3- 

..6years sat in a cold damp/hot humid with other tyres piled ontop at a warehouse for 6 years prior to being bought is not good!

 

much more to know but thats the short of it.

Edited March 6 by RideWithStyles

[Simon Davey]

3 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

sounds logical from your mechanic.

Also his thoughts on the wider tyre choice is correct to the mainstream of people, the theory only works if you bike/tyre/style needs to or can make best use case of-if on track with a particular riding pattern then some bikes/riders could benefit but for the road not much point unless you had a kawa that ran 120/65/17 front.

 

Personally not a fan of Bridgestones at all and one i will not tolerate them, the carcass is too stiff, compounds too hard and doesnt like anything below 14*c and about 40miles to get them to temp and wear can be seen still if the suspension cant be tuned to adapt to it.

not a crap tyre but certainly one that doesn't work for me or the bikes setting to make it work.

 

as a rule the more snipes or complex the tread the more movement ( wear ) it naturally allows unless its bridged or supported by the tread. which is great in the cold and wet but can be a problem in the hot.

 

pr3 had bad shark or scalloped wear primarily due to the simple one way tread pattern design, PR4s are worst for weird wear patterns due to the more complex design, if you suffer woth this then there are two ways to help address it, pressure and suspension settings.

I dont mind michelins but not my first preference as if i couldnt get metz/pirellis/Avon.

soft carcass can give treads a harder time but if your not taking attention to the tyres requirement or suspension your more likely to make it far worse. 

 

so take the time to understand what YOU want / need from the tyre of priorities. then research what that means to you? 

 

so to round it off:

soft carcass tyre (michelin and pirelli etc) - quite smoother ride to soaks up bumps, can put more pressure into the tyre to handle more weight or commute more or to cool the tyre down etc- negative effect is that they can be less communication of letting you know what it is doing. more sensitive to pressure loss or increase.

 

Hard carcass (dunlop and bridgestone etc) just the opposite. can be crashy,plastic and shouts at you if you like it of not...

 

Tread- more snipes/cuts better in wet but in the hot can heat up more -and increase wear.

also to note dont be too concerned about having the latest "greatest" tyre spec over ones that are a good few years old (or down the tier ranking as its also put) in their basic design is still great even 10 or more years ago and made the same way as before, if in fact probably the best as its had many years of production running and tweaking! 

ie a road 6 over road4/3 or 

Rosso 4 over the 3/2 etc.

 

the only thing you need to worry about older generations of tyres is making sure they're as fresh as possible because most are still made to this day they only just stopped making mich road 2 (great tyre) and still on the 3- 

..6years sat in a cold damp/hot humid with other tyres piled ontop at a warehouse for 6 years prior to being bought is not good!

 

much more to know but thats the short of it.

 

Many thanks @RideWithStyles

That's plenty to think about and discuss with the mechanic.

 

 

Edited March 6 by Simon Davey

[rob m]

1 hour ago, Simon Davey said:

 

Many thanks @RideWithStyles

That's plenty to think about and discuss with the mechanic.

 

 

 

Just go with your mechanics advice and see how you feel when you take the bike out for a ride. You'll know if they work for you. If not, change them. Simple mate. 

 

For the record, I have Bridgestone T32s on my K1300S and they're superb. Rippled off the edge and I ride them hard. I've also ridden on Michelin, Avon, Pirelli, Continental and Metz over the years, I'd say probably overall say Michelin Pilot Road's are the best all rounder. Ridden in Europe on tours with them, they're amazing in the wet. I'll probably opt for PR6s on my next tyre change considering I'm off to Spain and France late May. 

 

Best tyres for handling I found were Pirelli Diablos on my Fireblade.  OMG they were amazing. So confident inspiring I thought I was Rossi.