EPC rating and letting

[Davidtav]

I will probably get some criticism but no problem. I’m thick skinned. So I have a couple of rental properties. One was the family house. Another was a project I bought at auction a few years ago.  Both are rated D on the EPC thing. I have nothing against the climate agenda. But honestly I don’t think I have the funds to raise them both to a C. With my flat, which was built in 1830, I think the current designation of D is probably questionable anyway. I can’t see how it could ever become a C … now I will say that I am actually a good landlord. I attend to any problems immediately. I wouldn’t want my tenants to be inconvenienced or not receive the best service. But yes I’m thinking, should I just evict the tenants and sell these properties?  … in my opinion the Green agenda should just affect new builds. …

Edited February 8 by Davidtav

[Stu]

on your ratings it should tell you what you need to do to move to the next one or any recommendations 

 

if you go down the route of selling instead of evicting I would ask the tenants if they want to buy it. you can use the length of time they have been there and the rent they have paid as a "deposit" and offer a discount of the deposit amount (5%) then they don't have to find a deposit. It works just like the right to buy scheme for council tenants 

[Davidtav]

I will look into that. I will probably just make the improvements and take the hit. 

[Davidtav]

The whole thing is crazy. My main house that I rent out is a lovely 90s property. Full double glazing. Loft is insulated. And it is D. And I believe cavity insulation itself would not raise it to C

[Davidtav]

The truth is I will probably have to sell one property to make the improvements to the other property. That doesn’t actually help anyone really

[Fiddlesticks]

4 hours ago, Davidtav said:

I have nothing against the climate agenda.

I do. Load of old rowlocks.

 

The law of unintended but quite obvious consequences. It's no wonder the next generation are finding it increasingly hard to find somewhere to rent. Hardly the fault of landlords.

Edited February 8 by Fiddlesticks

[husoi]

Keep in mind that the EPC certificates are issued by brainless morons with no chance to get a proper job.

EPC is not worth the pdf they are written on.

Surveyors have no idea what an environmental measure is even if it would hit them on the face.

Those are just another layer of bureaucracy created by idiots to keep some useless people in some kind of weird employment.

When I sold my house, the jellyfish brain idiot didn't saw the smart room thermostat, couldn't identify the complete set of smoke and heat alarms as stipulated by the Scottish law.

He couldn't grasp the idea that the flooring was A** rated by the manufacturer, even if I shown him the information.

Then they advise you to have underfloor insulation installed without telling you that by doing so, your property become unsellable because insulation foam will accelerate the rotting process by trapping moisture in the wood.

They have no idea what an led bulb is neither they understand that an oversized boiler will last twice longer than what would be stipulated by manufacturer.

[Stu]

you can actually check online the EPC of a property 

 

I have just checked mine and its a C but to bring it up to a B I need to do this 

 

 

So that would potentially cost me 20k! to save £380 a year! so 52 years to gain that money back  

[Old-codger]

I have been in so many rented properties over the years where the landlords just take the money and make absolutly no improvements to the property. Just take the rent and if the tenants complain they get kicked out and another tenant moves in. Ive been in houses where you can see the sky through the roof, windows not closing or rotton and even falling out. Mold covering bedroom walls, ancient boilers that cost a fortune to run the list goes on. There is a house near me that was built in 1992 it has rotton single glaze windows no cavity insulation and the last tenant said hardly any loft insulation. This is a one bed house rented out at around 800 a month and there is no mortgage on the property. So over the years the landlord has had a very good return on that and done sod all to improve it for their tenants. Its all about trying to improve britains housing stock and bring it up to a better standard, there are thousands upon thousands of poor quality rented houses in this country. Im not saying anyone on here is a bad landlord but overall the UK housing stock is one of the worst in europe.  

[Davidtav]

37 minutes ago, Old-codger said:

I have been in so many rented properties over the years where the landlords just take the money and make absolutly no improvements to the property. Just take the rent and if the tenants complain they get kicked out and another tenant moves in. Ive been in houses where you can see the sky through the roof, windows not closing or rotton and even falling out. Mold covering bedroom walls, ancient boilers that cost a fortune to run the list goes on. There is a house near me that was built in 1992 it has rotton single glaze windows no cavity insulation and the last tenant said hardly any loft insulation. This is a one bed house rented out at around 800 a month and there is no mortgage on the property. So over the years the landlord has had a very good return on that and done sod all to improve it for their tenants. Its all about trying to improve britains housing stock and bring it up to a better standard, there are thousands upon thousands of poor quality rented houses in this country. Im not saying anyone on here is a bad landlord but overall the UK housing stock is one of the worst in europe.  

I’m not disputing what you say. But that isn’t the case here

[S-Westerly]

Old properties and there are a lot in this country, are virtually impossible to bring up to C without spending loads. If it's listed at all then it's even worse as there's a lot of stuff you can't do anyway. Relatively new stuff can be just as bad or worse if it's built with cheap and shoddy materials. Mine is B and was built in 2017. I will not be doing anything "green" to improve it as the costs are not too high with little return.

[Davidtav]

Yeah. My house is D

my flat is actually part of a property built around 1820 i think. And it is listed Grade 11

Edited February 8 by Davidtav

[Pie man]

There is guidance on PRS exemptions and exemption requirements, sadly your lets wouldn't qualify, however (me) being a brainless moron take what I say with a pinch of salt  You should speak to your assessor for advice. 

 

e.g. How old are your EPC's. The old calcs were based on gas heating, being the cheapest way to heat a property. The new ones are focussed on carbon emissions, taking actual measures instead of assumptions, the fabric first approach doesn't appear to the the first approach anymore and going straight for LEL and Solar Heating and photovoltaics instead, which will give you around 20 points. And you know this comes at a cost without funding.  

Edited February 9 by Pie man
Typo

[Fiddlesticks]

There's 10cm of Kingspan above my loft room. I know because  I fitted it myself.

 

EPC man: "I can't see it, so I'll have to put down 'none'".

 

Of course you can't see it, it's behind plasterboard, where it's supposed to be.

[Bender]

I've someone I know who rents out old properties, be interesting how he gets around this because they are old stone with no cavity and solid stone floors.

 

The returns for the expenditure is mad, we have cavity and loft insulation and I would say it's made absolutely no difference what so ever, ripping up the concrete to put insulation in  sure would cost about 15k and would make as much difference as thick underlay.

[Bender]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

you can actually check online the EPC of a property 

 

I have just checked mine and its a C but to bring it up to a B I need to do this 

 

 

So that would potentially cost me 20k! to save £380 a year! so 52 years to gain that money back  

What site did you use 

[Stu]

10 hours ago, Bender said:

What site did you use 

Government website 

[Fiddlesticks]

https://find-energy-certificate.service.gov.uk/find-a-certificate/type-of-property

[Fozzie]

Isn't the rule on minimum EPC coming in 2030? Or has that been brought forward? 

 

For the house, have you upgraded to LED lighting? That counts for quite a bit for the EPC rating and is low cost.

The cavity insulation should get you the rest of the way, and maybe a new combi-boiler as they will soon become the main target. The ambition is to electrify heat. 

 

I work in power generation, and the grid is a mess right now. Everyone running around like their hair is on fire. 

My view on it changes from optimistic to sceptic quite often, but when I'm feeling sceptical I start to suspect that those at the top know high energy bills are coming, and that power availability won't be the best. The only way to deal with that is reduce demand. The tech to decarbonise is expensive to retrofit (not so bad on new build), but it's the ongoing running costs of them that get you. So if I didn't know better, these green targets to insulate homes better is more to do with the fact people would freeze to death due to the increased poverty such measures bring. 

[Davidtav]

54 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Isn't the rule on minimum EPC coming in 2030? Or has that been brought forward? 

 

For the house, have you upgraded to LED lighting? That counts for quite a bit for the EPC rating and is low cost.

The cavity insulation should get you the rest of the way, and maybe a new combi-boiler as they will soon become the main target. The ambition is to electrify heat. 

 

I work in power generation, and the grid is a mess right now. Everyone running around like their hair is on fire. 

My view on it changes from optimistic to sceptic quite often, but when I'm feeling sceptical I start to suspect that those at the top know high energy bills are coming, and that power availability won't be the best. The only way to deal with that is reduce demand. The tech to decarbonise is expensive to retrofit (not so bad on new build), but it's the ongoing running costs of them that get you. So if I didn't know better, these green targets to insulate homes better is more to do with the fact people would freeze to death due to the increased poverty such measures bring. 

Yes it is 2030

The house could become a D fairly easily I think. Cavity wall insulation would get it very close. It might need a new heating system as well. … it is actually a really lovely modern property with Everest double glazing throughout. Loft is insulated. It certainly isn’t a draughty cold property as these rules suggest.

 

Im more concerned about the flat really. It used to be an antique shop actually. I bought it at auction in 2017 and converted it to a studio flat.  All properly. It is now a domestic property. It was built around 1820. It is listed building. There are a lot of restrictions with it being listed. For example, I can’t change the existing shop window. An application to do that has been refused. 

Edited February 10 by Davidtav

[Fender1515]

Hi David, we buy renovate and rent out properties, our last two projects being pre 1930's houses. We involved the EPC surveyor before we started the renovation for advice on what we needed to implement to achieve a C, B rating.

The practical, economic and achievable advice was 100MM depth of loft insulation, fit electrical combi boiler, LED's throughout, and fitting a room  a room thermostat would get us to C rating. The property had reasonable quality double glazing, replacing with triple glazing would not have made a significant difference, apart from financial hit.

One property was stone built, Lining the internal walls with  thermal liners was also an option but unless we could install from floor to 1st floor ceiling height would have little advantage.

If you are genuinely concerned< i would suggest getting an EPC survey from a company that you would use on completion, on the basis that you want to know what  you will active from the investment your putting in and what will gives the best return.

Interestingly, fitting a modern room thermostat can make a significant uplift to the EPC rating and relatively low investment. 

I hope this is of some help

      

[Davidtav]

37 minutes ago, Fender1515 said:

Hi David, we buy renovate and rent out properties, our last two projects being pre 1930's houses. We involved the EPC surveyor before we started the renovation for advice on what we needed to implement to achieve a C, B rating.

The practical, economic and achievable advice was 100MM depth of loft insulation, fit electrical combi boiler, LED's throughout, and fitting a room  a room thermostat would get us to C rating. The property had reasonable quality double glazing, replacing with triple glazing would not have made a significant difference, apart from financial hit.

One property was stone built, Lining the internal walls with  thermal liners was also an option but unless we could install from floor to 1st floor ceiling height would have little advantage.

If you are genuinely concerned< i would suggest getting an EPC survey from a company that you would use on completion, on the basis that you want to know what  you will active from the investment your putting in and what will gives the best return.

Interestingly, fitting a modern room thermostat can make a significant uplift to the EPC rating and relatively low investment. 

I hope this is of some help

      

Thank you. That is very helpful indeed.

[Bender]

Especially the bit about using the same before and after company especially when taking their advice.