EU... in or out

[Tango]

It's called respect, mate!

[Bonniebird]

As he declared his name to be 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court, I think there is a modicum of evidence that it was politically motivated.

[NeilM]

Right.

Going to try and be rational here.

Tell you what Gautrek.

You come to my town. Yes the town where a totally innocent labour MP died for her views and tell us it wasn't politically motivated.

Fxxxxx easy gobbing off 100 mile away.

We are living through it. We as in all members of the community. Whites and asians. Christians and muslims.

Reds and non reds.

[mattycoops43]

A few people have mentioned the Balkans as if they are a problem for people saying the European parliament has stopped war in Europe. Am I missing something? I was pretty sure Yugoslavia was not part of the European Union? Correct me if I am wrong.

It's taken me ages to decide, but I have finally come down on the remain side for various reasons. I have problems with the way the EU parliament works, the bureoucracy, the ridiculous amounts of money it costs etc etc etc, but I think there are bigger things at stake. I can see the whole thing collapsing which would be pretty catastrophic. I am very worried by the right wing elements in countries like France that are on the verge of coming to power. There's loads of reasons, but I guess you know them. Sick of the politicians being full of crap on tv this whole debate is nothing to do with immigration, it is totally irrelevant to the referendum. It is about the fundamentals of democracy.

[XTreme]

No doubt it was politically motivated......no matter how much the media try to spin this "lone madman" line.

[Throttled]

Angry because, at the age of 91, as someone who 72 years ago this month landed in Normandy with the liberation forces, I remember vividly the old Europe of warring factions and am convinced that the EU, for all its need of reform, remains a power for good in the world. For Britain to leave it would open the door to European disintegration and a return to the dangerous nationalisms of the past.

I hope many of my Facebook friends share my anger and will vote accordingly next week.

 

He seems to have forgotten that NATO is the reason for peace in Europe.

 

But the EU got the Noble Peace Prize, not NATO. NATO is for if there is a war, or when then is a war, such as in the Balkans and it is presently causing tensions with the Russians due to war games in eastern Europe. The EU has no military activity and campaigns for peace and democracy. NATO has helped maintain peace with the Russians, not within Europe itself.

[Throttled]

He seems to have forgotten that NATO is the reason for peace in Europe.

 

definitely.. Nato. has helped prevent a hot war between the Soviets and the west... but was ineffective in preventing slaughter in Europe during the early 90s.

obviously the Balkan war is forgettable... the victims were mainly muslim and who cares about them.

 

Yes and the EU did such a good job in the Balkans didn't it.

OH wait thats wrong.

 

Since the Balkan states have joined the EU they have gone from strength to strength under democratically elected governments and any issues are negotiated. They were bearing the brunt of the immigration crisis and instead of fighting they sorted out the problems through negotiation in the EU. Prior to that the EU had nothing to do with events in the region.

Instead NATO if anything made things worse at times and failed to prevent genocide.

[Throttled]

A few people have mentioned the Balkans as if they are a problem for people saying the European parliament has stopped war in Europe. Am I missing something? I was pretty sure Yugoslavia was not part of the European Union? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

You are not wrong. Yugoslavia began to break up in the late 1980s and descended into civil war in 1991 and fighting went on through out the 1990s, with NATO bombing in 1999 (when they hit the Chinese Embassy amongst other places). The EU as we know it now only came into being in 2009 with the Lisbon Treaty. It and its predecessors have never had a military function. Only Slovenia and Croatia are former Yugoslavian States that are in the EU. Others such as Serbia are going through the slow process of joining and are presently associate members.

 

It's taken me ages to decide, but I have finally come down on the remain side for various reasons. I have problems with the way the EU parliament works, the bureoucracy, the ridiculous amounts of money it costs etc etc etc, but I think there are bigger things at stake. I can see the whole thing collapsing which would be pretty catastrophic. I am very worried by the right wing elements in countries like France that are on the verge of coming to power. There's loads of reasons, but I guess you know them. Sick of the politicians being full of crap on tv this whole debate is nothing to do with immigration, it is totally irrelevant to the referendum. It is about the fundamentals of democracy.

 

No government is prefect. One reason why we need the EU is because the legislation it deals with would have to pass onto the UK parliaments and that would swamp them. Meanwhile Brexit act as if we will always get perfect for us deals negotiating individually with each country or the EU as a whole, which is clearly crap. As it is, the UK gets its way with votes in the EU going our way about 90% of the time.

[Throttled]

I am in doubt myself that the horrible, nasty, rhetoric of the campaign has created an atmosphere that help result in someone with mental health and hate issues killing an MP. The lack of facts and ignorance that has been spouted has been disgusting. For example this scaremongering;

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5762970815000030001b9bb6.png

That uncontrolled wave of immigration has taken place in south eastern Europe, no where near the UK. It is due to wars in Lybia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, which we have encouraged and participated in. The UK has always controlled it own borders as it has never been in the Schengen agreement and in any case, those immigrants are from outside the EU and they are mainly refugees from war. So only a very few of those in the poster will get anywhere near the UK. It is also the UKs job to stop illegal immigrants getting in and it is not the EUs to prevent them getting here. As for immigration to the UK....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-index

....if you have got a few hours to read through it, please notice legislation such as the Immigration Act 1971, which clearly has sweet FA to do with the EU and the Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2000 which is UK legislation. UK rules are very complicated because of the Commonwealth and our ties with certain parts of the world such as India. Leaving will not change that and Albanians will still try and row across the Channel and Syrians will still hide in the backs of lorries.

[XTreme]

I am in doubt myself that the horrible, nasty, rhetoric of the campaign has created an atmosphere that help result in someone with mental health and hate issues killing an MP. The lack of facts and ignorance that has been spouted has been disgusting.

 

I've been thinking the same as well!

Edited June 19, 2016 by XTreme

[nicklucey]

I am in doubt myself that the horrible, nasty, rhetoric of the campaign has created an atmosphere that help result in someone with mental health and hate issues killing an MP. The lack of facts and ignorance that has been spouted has been disgusting. For example this scaremongering;

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5762970815000030001b9bb6.png

That uncontrolled wave of immigration has taken place in south eastern Europe, no where near the UK. It is due to wars in Lybia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, which we have encouraged and participated in. The UK has always controlled it own borders as it has never been in the Schengen agreement and in any case, those immigrants are from outside the EU and they are mainly refugees from war. So only a very few of those in the poster will get anywhere near the UK. It is also the UKs job to stop illegal immigrants getting in and it is not the EUs to prevent them getting here. As for immigration to the UK....

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-index

....if you have got a few hours to read through it, please notice legislation such as the Immigration Act 1971, which clearly has sweet FA to do with the EU and the Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2000 which is UK legislation. UK rules are very complicated because of the Commonwealth and our ties with certain parts of the world such as India. Leaving will not change that and Albanians will still try and row across the Channel and Syrians will still hide in the backs of lorries.

For anyone not aware, this poster by farage is a copy a real nazi propaganda poster, behaviour which is absolutely outrightly disgusting. He also photoshopped the white faces out. No time for anyone listening to anything out of his Nazis mouth.

[Throttled]

The tag line of breaking free of the EU and taking back control of our borders is a lie. We were never in Schengen, which has pretty much ended all over Europe now anyway and we have always had control of our borders. That various immigrants try and do get through will not end by leaving the EU. Non EU immigrants are nothing to do with the EU. The UK agreed to allow EU immigration because it suits the UK to have hundreds of thousands of UK citizens working freely in the EU, the second most after Poland. Those migrants out of the UK are mainly highly skilled, usually multi lingual and they will not be replacing the Polish crop pickers and cleaners who UKIP want to send back.

Confuse a UKIP supporter and ask them about immigration form the Commonwealth, the EU and the rest of the world and what regulations apply to what and who is allowed to do what. They will not know and they will just blame the whole thing on the EU. Then you will know they have just lied to you.

[mattycoops43]

ooooo where's a 'like' button when you need it! Well said.

[Guest]

Right.

Going to try and be rational here.

Tell you what Gautrek.

You come to my town. Yes the town where a totally innocent labour MP died for her views and tell us it wasn't politically motivated.

Fxxxxx easy gobbing off 100 mile away.

We are living through it. We as in all members of the community. Whites and asians. Christians and muslims.

Reds and non reds.

 

Right mate . Here is my post.

Why has her death got anything to do with this thread. She was killed by a nutter.

But anyway various political people have already spoken out and tried to link the debate to her death so its a bit late anyway.

Labour remain MP Neil Coyle has spoken out linking the exit people to the extremist hard right, Angele merkel has blamed the exaggerations of the debate on her death, and European commissioner ( some nobody from the EU) Dimitris Averamopolous said she was murdered for her dedication to European democracy and humanity.

Given we don't know why she was killed yet then this is pathetic to link her views to her dreath. But thats the level they have sunk to.

 

Please point out where I was F***ing gobbing off? As all I was doing was pointing out how the remain camp had already used her death to score points in the referendem. Or i assume you have inside knowledge of this guy and his mental state?

[Tango]

Please take the time to watch the video in this link...... by someone who knows what he's talking about.....

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law-and-social-justice/news/articles/watch-dishonesty-industrial-scale-eu-law-expert-analyses-referendum-debate/index.htm

[rennie]

Won't work for me Bob!

could be work's computer

[Tango]

Yeah, it's an https:// Ian......so your work computer may not like that.....

I can view it via my tablet.....I'll see if Mandy can too.....

[Tango]

Mandy can open it Ian, so it must be a setting on your work computer mate.....

[rennie]

no probs yes it is! won't play via F/B either

[Six30]

Right.

Going to try and be rational here.

Tell you what Gautrek.

You come to my town. Yes the town where a totally innocent labour MP died for her views and tell us it wasn't politically motivated.

Fxxxxx easy gobbing off 100 mile away.

We are living through it. We as in all members of the community. Whites and asians. Christians and muslims.

Reds and non reds.

 

Right mate . Here is my post.

Why has her death got anything to do with this thread. She was killed by a nutter.

But anyway various political people have already spoken out and tried to link the debate to her death so its a bit late anyway.

Labour remain MP Neil Coyle has spoken out linking the exit people to the extremist hard right, Angele merkel has blamed the exaggerations of the debate on her death, and European commissioner ( some nobody from the EU) Dimitris Averamopolous said she was murdered for her dedication to European democracy and humanity.

Given we don't know why she was killed yet then this is pathetic to link her views to her dreath. But thats the level they have sunk to.

 

Please point out where I was F***ing gobbing off? As all I was doing was pointing out how the remain camp had already used her death to score points in the referendem. Or i assume you have inside knowledge of this guy and his mental state?

 

Keep it friendly please lads , this is the eu in or out post, not the hitting on the head lessons post .

[NeilM]

Was a tad tired and emotional Six.

Still stand by everything I wrote mind.

Anyway what's up with you being the sensible one

[Six30]

Was a tad tired and emotional Six.

Still stand by everything I wrote mind.

Anyway what's up with you being the sensible one

 

Did that come across as being sensible ...oh bollox

[MarkW]

Could this be the clincher?

[rennie]

that's it then! I've changed my mind now I've seen that

[Six30]

He's got nice hair though