Valve Stem Seal Replacement Without Removing Head

[fastbob]

So are we .

[leener]

Just made my first discovery... £176.52 for three sets of piston rings.

http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-ring-set-79-0-cast-piston-t1120865-part.html

Sprint Manufacturing have supplied virtually all the components that I have so far needed in this project, and even doing a little digging around has revealed that this will be the cheapest likely price that I'll find the rings.

Not to mention, I also need to think about gasket kits... And they aren't cheap, either!

Surely, there's a cheaper way to manage this.

Gasket paper and a careful hand seems to be an option, but also, have issues with paint flaking off the engine casing.

This is turning into one heck of a job, but still a lot cheaper than if somebody else did it for me.

[Westbeef]

Just made my first discovery... £176.52 for three sets of piston rings.

http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-ring-set-79-0-cast-piston-t1120865-part.html

Sprint Manufacturing have supplied virtually all the components that I have so far needed in this project, and even doing a little digging around has revealed that this will be the cheapest likely price that I'll find the rings.

Not to mention, I also need to think about gasket kits... And they aren't cheap, either!

Surely, there's a cheaper way to manage this.

Gasket paper and a careful hand seems to be an option, but also, have issues with paint flaking off the engine casing.

This is turning into one heck of a job, but still a lot cheaper than if somebody else did it for me.

 

Don't forget when you get to the checkout the shipping is higher to the UK and doesn't include duties or taxes It's closer to £400 when you add these on

[leener]

Don't forget when you get to the checkout the shipping is higher to the UK and doesn't include duties or taxes It's closer to £400 when you add these on

 

Fortunately, Sprint Manufacturing are UK based, so postage is £4.95. I can't remember who recommended - have to look back in the thread.

This, by far, is the best price that I can get, to my research.

I ordered a micrometer and found a lower gasket kit for ~£15 on fleabay.

The engine is all in bits, in the shed, waiting for me to get round to finishing opening the crank case.

Hope there is room in the dish washer...

[megawatt]

Don't buy the rings until you've checked your bores, the existing ring end gaps and the piston top and skirt clearances.

[Westbeef]

Don't forget when you get to the checkout the shipping is higher to the UK and doesn't include duties or taxes It's closer to £400 when you add these on

 

Fortunately, Sprint Manufacturing are UK based, so postage is £4.95. I can't remember who recommended - have to look back in the thread.

This, by far, is the best price that I can get, to my research.

I ordered a micrometer and found a lower gasket kit for ~£15 on fleabay.

The engine is all in bits, in the shed, waiting for me to get round to finishing opening the crank case.

Hope there is room in the dish washer...

 

Apologies, I thought you thought that American website was cheapest

[Bianco2564]

Don't buy the rings until you've checked your bores, the existing ring end gaps and the piston top and skirt clearances.

 

As above,know when to cut your losses before you spent more on it than you would recover.

Used motors on the bay starting at £200-400,pick one that has some kind of warranty,fit it and sell it(which was the plan all along?)

You can then sell your engine as spares.

[leener]

Don't buy the rings until you've checked your bores, the existing ring end gaps and the piston top and skirt clearances.

 

That's why I held off paying and ordering and ordered a new micrometer from ebay, instead. You gave me tons of great advice for this step, so I am getting prepped for the weekend, got my Haynes manual, and ready to get to work.

If I am going to spent £180, I want to make sure that my investment is necessary, and there are no other issues.

I will be taking plenty more pictures and recording each finding, as I deconstruct the crank case and pistons, and inspect everything, as per the manual. It is the best way for me to learn.

The deeper into this, I get, the more inclined I am to want to keep hold of the bike.

 

Know when to cut your losses before you spent more on it than you would recover.

Used motors on the bay starting at £200-400,pick one that has some kind of warranty,fit it and sell it(which was the plan all along?)

You can then sell your engine as spares.

 

That was a conversation that I was having with mate from work, earlier.

The fact that you can shift the parts for £150 here, £50 there, another £50 here, ends up with you potentially having more than enough left over for a good replacement lump, which works.

I have already been scouring the sold items on eBay to see what the components are worth.

At the very least, I want to get stuck in with this inspection, and go from there. This is experience that I will benefit for a lifetime.

[fastbob]

Don't buy the rings until you've checked your bores, the existing ring end gaps and the piston top and skirt clearances.

 

As above,know when to cut your losses before you spent more on it than you would recover.

Used motors on the bay starting at £200-400,pick one that has some kind of warranty,fit it and sell it(which was the plan all along?)

You can then sell your engine as spares.

 

I also looked into this option on your behalf at the weekend but it does seem a shame to quit now after having gone to so much effort already.

[fastbob]

You can then sell your engine as spares.

 

Or buy a bike with no engine and stick yours in then flog that !

[leener]

Whilst I was messing around on Facebook, I saw a post popup, by some guy in Canada, on a Triumph Sprint ST 955i owners group.

He claims to have thrown a 1050 lump in there, managed to wire it up and changed the starter motor for the newer model, and it fired up.

No idea if it was rideable, because there was too much snow where he is. So, I wanted to follow up on that one.

Not that I intend on buying a 1050 engine, but it is still interesting.

Once I get all my findings, I will post them up here and hopefully can come to an easy decision, based on the advice.

Interestingly enough, I have the standard Triumph Sprint 955i maintenance manual for the model with the older engine in, and that had bore liners. You have to access from underneath to get them out.

I'll ask Lord Haynes, when I get a chance - hopefully tonight (I'm at work.. don't tell the boss!).

[leener]

[leener]

 

Now trying to understand how to check end gaps and the rest

[fastbob]

Regarding end gaps, you have to take a top ring ( I think ) and insert it in the bore . Make sure its level and measure the gap between the ends with a feeler gauge .

[TimR]

Is it me or do.some of those bearing shells have some nasty scoring on them ?

https://www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk/download/file.php?id=20204

[megawatt]

Did you click the big ends before splitting them? Shells and journals look OK to me. Pistons not badly scored. Some burning at top. Need to remove rings to check end gaps, as discussed.

[leener]

Did you click the big ends before splitting them?

 

Cheers, guys.

Hope I don’t sound dumb when I ask about clicking the big ends, and what it means. I don’t think that I did this.

I did as fastbob described, and it was also mentioned in the Haynes manual, that you put the rings into the bore to get the end gap measurement. I took my time and did the best I could. The pictures were for show, but I did push the rings about an inch deep into the bore.

I did exactly as the manual said (only done cylinder three, today) and checked thoroughly that the rings were smack-bang right in tolerance.

I checked the piston diameter and that was also in tolerance, according to the Haynes bible.

I gently compressed the rings onto the piston, and eased the thing back into the bore, having to make sure that I put it in the right way round! I have my technique right to do it only using my fingers.

I’m tired out and bitterly disappointed that I can’t find an issue with the rings, so far. I have the other two to do tomorrow.

The low compression is a big problem, and I am going to check the valves again, and consider that I could have got the exhaust and intake cams mixed up. But, if I did, then wouldn’t there be significant signs of bent valves?

Off to build a cot, now.

All your advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Bianco2564]

Regarding end gaps, you have to take a top ring ( I think ) and insert it in the bore . Make sure its level and measure the gap between the ends with a feeler gauge .

 

Second ring aswell.

Could be the bores worn as much as the rings,measuring ring gaps will tell you if there is wear but not where.Would need a bit of kit like this to measure them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metric-Dial-Bore-Gauge-50-160MM-0-01MM-Bridge-Cylinder-Internal-Bore-Measuring/273050023547?hash=item3f930cb67b:g:KboAAOSwlpZacr5h

Need to check the finish in the bores aswell,is there any honing left?

If everything measures up ok, it may just need a flickhone of the bores and new rings?

[megawatt]

Check ALL the rings, including the oil scrapers. Check for overlap of the separator and staggering of the scrapers. Check bore diameters at various heights. Clicking the big ends front to back would have told you if wear excessive on bearing caps. Remove shallow scoring on caps with fine wet and dry.

[fastbob]

Check ALL the rings, including the oil scrapers. Check for overlap of the separator and staggering of the scrapers. Check bore diameters at various heights. Clicking the big ends front to back would have told you if wear excessive on bearing caps. Remove shallow scoring on caps with fine wet and dry.

 

Surely if you remove shallow scoring with wet and dry this means effectivly lowering the surrounding surface to match the depth of the scoring. Would this not increase the likelihood of excessive play in the bearings ? I am by no means an expert but I would have thought that a little scoring might be better left alone. I am keen to know what the thinking is here . PS do you mean the shells rather than the caps ?

[Bianco2564]

Check ALL the rings, including the oil scrapers. Check for overlap of the separator and staggering of the scrapers. Check bore diameters at various heights. Clicking the big ends front to back would have told you if wear excessive on bearing caps. Remove shallow scoring on caps with fine wet and dry.

 

Surely if you remove shallow scoring with wet and dry this means effectivly lowering the surrounding surface to match the depth of the scoring. Would this not increase the likelihood of excessive play in the bearings ? I am by no means an expert but I would have thought that a little scoring might be better left alone. I am keen to know what the thinking is here . PS do you mean the shells rather than the caps ?

 

It is acceptable to lightly polish crank journals with very fine abrasive tape to clean it up,spun up in a lathe.However,as you say removing too much will increase the bearing clearances so best left to someone experienced I'd say.You would need to measure the journals with a micrometer to check if they are still in spec.Any deep scores in the crank will not necessarily scrap it but again someone with experience would need to say what is acceptable.

Under no circumstances touch the bearing shells with abrasive.The outer layer (white metal) is very soft and you will easily damage it or impregnate it with particles of the abrasive.

To check the bearing clearances,you can use a product called plastigage.Basically a thin plasticene roll squashed between crankshaft and rod or main bearing,the less clearance,the wider the plastigage is spread.Don't know in particular what clearances on the Triumph are but 0.038 to 0.050 mm on a big end would sound about right.Any more and the oil film cannot support the load and it will hammer the bearing.This would be a heavy knocking sound rising with engine speed.

This would be the clicking test MW refered to.

Judging from the pics,the bearings looked ok with just normal running marks that go with the age of the engine.

[megawatt]

Yes, you can dress the shells, the caps just hold the shells in place. Lightly polishing the scratches will spread the oil film across the journal and not around the journal in a narrow strip.

[Mr Fro]

Loadsa pics

I tell you what mate, your bolt keeping method is spot on.

When I did my ZXR I just chucked everything in a magnetic tray and trusted my memory.

[Bianco2564]

Loadsa pics

I tell you what mate, your bolt keeping method is spot on.

When I did my ZXR I just chucked everything in a magnetic tray and trusted my memory.

 

I do the same,bit of cardboard,draw the shape of the casing and poke the bolts through in the correct location.

[leener]

Woohoo!

Just won a gasket set for my engine on eBay for £1.75 + shipping. Saves me a few quid.

I will get started in a little while, on piston 1.

Caffeine not kicked in, yet.