Capital Punishment

[S-Westerly]

I'm no fan of capital punishment as all too often cases that could be capital are found to have been miscarriages of justice. A posthumous pardon doesn't  really cut it. That said certain crimes such as the abduction / rape / murder of children where there is incontrovertible  DNA evidence should at the very least result in a full life term, no parole. Death sentence could be an option there but I'd not be willing to pull the lever. Unless of course it was one of mine who was the victim then I'd be very Old Testament. 

[rob m]

There was a reason for the abolition of capital punishment. 

 

It doesn't work.

 

 

[MarkW]

8 minutes ago, S-Westerly said:

I'm no fan of capital punishment as all too often cases that could be capital are found to have been miscarriages of justice. A posthumous pardon doesn't  really cut it. That said certain crimes such as the abduction / rape / murder of children where there is incontrovertible  DNA evidence should at the very least result in a full life term, no parole. Death sentence could be an option there but I'd not be willing to pull the lever. Unless of course it was one of mine who was the victim then I'd be very Old Testament. 

Logic like this coming soon to a jury near you. Be afraid... 

 

Apologies @S-Westerly - I'm deliberately being a twat - but phrases like "Incontrovertible DNA evidence" are enough to send a shudder down the spine of any microbiologist.

[Bender]

Round and round we go, carry on repeating miscarriages of justice till your blue in the face.

 

 

Fact remains had he received death sentence, no one else would die at his hands and 5 prison guards would have avoided hospital 

 

When your own defence tells a jury he has already done a stretch for rape and murder, which they didn't have to do, when your arrested in the house covered in blood with a crime scene from the shining I can see how to some that in the future dna evidence might prove he was innocent. Ohhh hold on it won't, he admitted that one too in an attempt to get off lightly.

 

I'm going to split this thread later, we have ruined a perfectly good chance to anoy the remoaners 

[KiwiBob]

18 minutes ago, rob m said:

There was a reason for the abolition of capital punishment. 

 

It doesn't work.

 

 

It does stop them re-offending though!

Edited December 31, 2020 by KiwiBob

[Bender]

1 minute ago, KiwiBob said:

It does stop them re-offending though!

Guaranteed.

[MarkW]

1 minute ago, Bender said:

Round and round we go, carry on repeating miscarriages of justice till your blue in the face. 

Folks, if that doesn't strike icy cold terror into your hearts, nothing will.

[Bender]

6 minutes ago, MarkW said:

Folks, if that doesn't strike icy cold terror into your hearts, nothing will.

Nicely brush over the rest 

[MarkW]

4 minutes ago, Bender said:

Round and round we go, carry on repeating miscarriages of justice till your blue in the face.

 

Fact remains had he received death sentence, no one else would die at his hands and 5 prison guards would have avoided hospital 

 

When your own defence tells a jury he has already done a stretch for rape and murder, which they didn't have to do, when your arrested in the house covered in blood with a crime scene from the shining I can see how to some that in the future dna evidence might prove he was innocent. Ohhh hold on it won't, he admitted that one too in an attempt to get off lightly.

 

I'm going to split this thread later, we have ruined a perfectly good chance to anoy the remoaners 

The point is not that capital punishment fails to punish the guilty, it is that from time to time it also punishes the innocent. Nobody is claiming that DNA evidence would have saved the guy in your trial from the gallows, but you cannot have provision in law for his execution without simultaneously leaving open the possibility of an innocent person being executed as a result of one of those pesky miscarriages of justice you find so irksome. The difference between us is that you think that's a fair price to pay. I do not.

[Bender]

Nope I'm of an opinion that some and a very few cases are irrefutable 

[MarkW]

1 minute ago, Bender said:

Nicely brush over the rest 

I hope I haven't done anything to give you the impression that I'm not equal to the challenge. 

[James in Brum]

@bender those giving examples of reasons why they think it is a bad idea are not the only ones going around and around. You have done the equivalent of stick your fingers in your ears and gone ‘blah blah blah I’M NOT LISTENING’ .

[Six30]

1 hour ago, MarkW said:

You can't reinstate capital punishment "only in cases where @Bender is happy they're a wrong 'un" - it can only be administered after due process, and that due process is frequently susceptible to catastrophic error. 

 

Would you have been happy that Sally Clark was guilty after hearing the expert testimony of a renowned paediatrician that she had murdered her children? The jury in the original trial were, as were the judges in the Court of Appeal, and had it occurred in the 1950s she would have been hanged. But she was completely innocent. Or would things have been different if you had been on the jury, with your infallible nose for a genuine wrong 'un?

 

Sally Clark wasn't some petty criminal whose comeuppance was long overdue - she was a hardworking solicitor from a good family who had the great misfortune to lose two of her babies, to be arrested for murder, to have an arrogant fool testify against her as an expert witness, and to have the prosecution withhold vital evidence of her innocence. This wasn't in some kangaroo court in the third world - it was Chester Crown Court in 1999.

 

That could just as easily have been your family, or mine. If it had been your wife, and we had capital punishment, what would you say to her? "Look love, I know it's a bit rough you having to step off when we both know you're innocent, but look on the bright side - we get to kill loads of genuine criminals..." Or is it only unimportant if it's someone else's loved one dangling on the end of the rope?

Any wrongerns who deserve death ....   get  sentenced to death in exactly 10 years time from date of being found guilty  , time for appeals new evidence arrogant fools who testified wrongly to be found out .....sorted .

[James in Brum]

Just now, Six30 said:

Any wrongerns who deserve death ....   get  sentenced to death in exactly 10 years time from date of being found guilty  , time for appeals new evidence arrogant fools who testified wrongly to be found out .....sorted .

You are copying my idea but I said 100 years.

[Tiggie]

18 minutes ago, Bender said:

I'm going to split this thread later, we have ruined a perfectly good chance to anoy the remoaners 

 

Done 

[Six30]

Just now, James in Brum said:

You are copying my idea but I said 100 years.

im not , cause that is pointless.

[Six30]

8 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

@bender those giving examples of reasons why they think it is a bad idea are not the only ones going around and around. You have done the equivalent of stick your fingers in your ears and gone ‘blah blah blah I’M NOT LISTENING’ .

[James in Brum]

I think it is a very sensible way to have the death penalty and make sure no one dies through a miscarriage of justice. It fits with Bender’s desire for someone else to set the threshold.

10 years is not that long. It was not that long ago we had experts determining that psychological and physics symptoms could only be caused by sexual abuse and that not be true. Medics particularly love to believe that they know beyond doubt something that may then turn out to not be true.

[rob m]

34 minutes ago, Bender said:

Guaranteed.

 

Does it? 

[Bender]

4 minutes ago, rob m said:

 

Does it? 

Unless they come back from the dead.

[Old-codger]

I am more than willing to pull the lever the more heinous the crime the longer and painful I would make it. 

[rob m]

Just now, Bender said:

Unless they come back from the dead.

 

Thanks for that.

[Bender]

Just now, rob m said:

 

Thanks for that.

Your welcome 

[rob m]

Just now, Bender said:

Your welcome 

 

* You're 

[Bender]

Just now, rob m said:

 

* You're 

This ain't the grammar thread thumb