Road Position

[davecarrera]

I have been putting into practice positioning for road bends.

Position 3 to go left and 1 to go Right.

Today after two weeks of practice was the first day that it all started to make sense and my riding felt much more controlled.

Got to admit I went into a tighter corner than I thought, a little hot the other day, which was interesting, but kept upright and learned a lesson.

Just thought I would share that.

Practice makes perfect as they say...... I'm way of perfect lol.

[Fiddlesticks]

It's something they taught us on the bikesafe course. The police rider on day 1 did it much more pronounced than the advanced riding instructor on day 2.

[Simon Davey]

15 minutes ago, davecarrera said:

I have been putting into practice positioning for road bends.

Position 3 to go left and 1 to go Right.

Today after two weeks of practice was the first day that it all started to make sense and my riding felt much more controlled.

Got to admit I went into a tighter corner than I thought, a little hot the other day, which was interesting, but kept upright and learned a lesson.

Just thought I would share that.

Practice makes perfect as they say...... I'm way of perfect lol.

 

I've been trying this too, sounds like you're having better results than me, as I always end up just trundling around a bend in position 2.

I think with my past experience coming back to me though, that I should just do what feels right.

 

In a similar vein, look at counter steering, I hit a bend too fast on my last ride, and consciously used counter steering to get me round without trying to brake or lean further. I surprised myself to be honest.

[davecarrera]

28 minutes ago, Fiddlesticks said:

It's something they taught us on the bikesafe course. The police rider on day 1 did it much more pronounced than the advanced riding instructor on day 2.

I am down for a BikeSafe day when availability comes up but thought I would watch some videos of them doing it and try it myself. As I mention, today has been the first day where I seem to be getting it

[davecarrera]

11 minutes ago, Simon Davey said:

 

I've been trying this too, sounds like you're having better results than me, as I always end up just trundling around a bend in position 2.

I think with my past experience coming back to me though, that I should just do what feels right.

 

In a similar vein, look at counter steering, I hit a bend too fast on my last ride, and consciously used counter steering to get me round without trying to brake or lean further. I surprised myself to be honest.

Keep at it, I am , and each time it seems to get better. I must look odd to drivers as I seem to be doing it in slow traffic as well out of habit now lol. Probably a bit naughty but at least the drivers can not say "sorry mate i did not see you"

Will take your advise and look at counter steering also and I wish you well.

[manxie49]

I think, after a while, you'll find it just becomes second nature, and you probably already do it a lot of the time without even consciously thinking about it.  Off siding was a skill I was taught, that at first felt a bit alien, I do it all the time now "obviously when it's safe and legal to do so", comes in really handy on the narrow country roads I find, especially over here.  As Simon said, counter steering is another useful skill, that skill didn't really make sense to me till I started doing track days, but it makes a massive difference to your cornering ability and stability.

[Capt Sisko]

Remember the final rule about positioning. Never trade safety for position. By that I mean when you take that LH corner and the road is empty, position 3 is spot on. BUT, if there's a bloody great big lorry coming towards you dragging a 40ft container that you can see the back end of is going to clip the white line, do yourself a favour by slowing down and being in position 2 (or less if needed). The position 1,2 & 3 rules are good guidelines but every corner is different and even something so simple as bit of gravel on the corner can change what you do. 

 

As for going into a corner a little too hot, hell, we've all done it. The bottom line is you've got to both look further ahead and react sooner. Easier said then done. The point is you've man enough to admit it, you've learnt something from it and next time you'll do it better. It's a steep learning curve, but it sounds like you've got your head screwed in the right way.

Edited March 21 by Capt Sisko

[bonio]

9 hours ago, Fiddlesticks said:

The police rider on day 1 did it much more pronounced than the advanced riding instructor on day 2.

The copper who taught me said he were schooled to ride right next to the line (conditions allowing, of course). "Use all the road; you've paid for it".

I still take a more extreme position than most.  

[Bender]

I've paid a lot for the road, when safe to do so I use as much of it as required to make the bend as straight as possible

 

I was also going to add never take position over safety but was beaten too it.

 

Going into a bend to fast will make the bend slower cause your going to muck up apex, and exit and possibly your trousers, it's a learning curve though and things happen, learning from mistakes is quicker when they are your own.

[RideWithStyles]

9 hours ago, bonio said:

The copper who taught me said he were schooled to ride right next to the line (conditions allowing, of course). "Use all the road; you've paid for it".

I still take a more extreme position than most.  

Splitting hairs but weve paid for the potholes too 🫨 more surface area thats actually dangerous.

[Mawsley]

I have no idea what the whole 1,2,3 thing is and I’ve done one of these. My cop kept encouraging me to go faster - which I didn’t enjoy. Kept wanting me to change down more gears than needed too rather than using the engine’s torque to accelerate out of corners.

 

I did take road position advice from him with approaching traffic and junctions though, and that stuck with me. I enjoyed it, not sure I’d do another. 

[davecarrera]

Thanks all for the replies. I have, with trepidation, started to get my head around the counter steering malarkey as well. Push Left to go left and vise versa.

 

On the quieter parts of my ride into work today, I tried it out and hmmm seems to have advantages. Something worth investing time into.

 

I wish you all well and safe riding

[exportmanuk]

On 19/03/2024 at 19:10, Mawsley said:

I have no idea what the whole 1,2,3 thing is and I’ve done one of these. My cop kept encouraging me to go faster - which I didn’t enjoy. Kept wanting me to change down more gears than needed too rather than using the engine’s torque to accelerate out of corners.

 

I did take road position advice from him with approaching traffic and junctions though, and that stuck with me. I enjoyed it, not sure I’d do another. 

Many riders make the bike labour using too high of a gear, whilst there may have been one or two diesel motorcycle engines most petrol engines respond better being in the middle 3rd of the rev range. Making a bike accelerate from low revs is not good for the engine and reduces the responsiveness to throttle inputs both accelerating and slowing. ( this includes American V twins too)  

[Mawsley]

12 hours ago, exportmanuk said:

Many riders make the bike labour using too high of a gear, whilst there may have been one or two diesel motorcycle engines most petrol engines respond better being in the middle 3rd of the rev range. Making a bike accelerate from low revs is not good for the engine and reduces the responsiveness to throttle inputs both accelerating and slowing. ( this includes American V twins too)  

And yet my DCT works precisely how I’d have it were I riding it manually, so maybe you need to let the engineers at Honda know they’re getting it all wrong too

[Simon Davey]

12 hours ago, exportmanuk said:

Many riders make the bike labour using too high of a gear, whilst there may have been one or two diesel motorcycle engines most petrol engines respond better being in the middle 3rd of the rev range. Making a bike accelerate from low revs is not good for the engine and reduces the responsiveness to throttle inputs both accelerating and slowing. ( this includes American V twins too)  

 

Isn't thst is kinda obvious? 

I like to ride mine in top gear pootling along at 30Mph through villages and I'm not expecting to twist the wrist and get to 60 as soon as I get to the nationals, if I wanted to do that, I'd drop it down a couple of gears. 

Riding around at 4000 RPM to keep a good throttle response and engine braking is just a waste of fuel, increases engine wear, and reduces fuel economy. Not to mention the noise. 

I'm with @Mawsley, make use of all that torque. 

When you want to scream along at 10k, it's all there ready and waiting. 

 

[Capt Sisko]

On 19/03/2024 at 19:10, Mawsley said:

.....Kept wanting me to change down more gears than needed too rather than using the engine’s torque to accelerate out of corners......

Yeah, I've been told off for this as well, and it makes perfect sense if you've got a revy bike, but my R1250RT produces more torque at 2,000rpm than say a MT09 does at 7,000rpm. Yes, you shouldn't let your engine labour, but bottom end punch is a design feature of the big RT engines and as such I'd argue that you're just riding the bike the way the designers intended.  Give me an MT09 or similar and I'll do it differently. A good instructor ought to know the difference and alter their sermon accordingly.

[exportmanuk]

3 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

Yeah, I've been told off for this as well, and it makes perfect sense if you've got a revy bike, but my R1250RT produces more torque at 2,000rpm than say a MT09 does at 7,000rpm. Yes, you shouldn't let your engine labour, but bottom end punch is a design feature of the big RT engines and as such I'd argue that you're just riding the bike the way the designers intended.  Give me an MT09 or similar and I'll do it differently. A good instructor ought to know the difference and alter their sermon accordingly.

My current bike is a 23 1250RT and anything below 2.5k  does not do the engine any good unless I'm just maintaining a steady speed on a flat road. I find using the middle of the rev range may no significant difference to the MPG and yes I  am quite happy to use all the revs to the red line but each to their own.

[Blackholesun]

To be honest I just ride wherever and sometimes going round a corner when I should be in position 3 I like to go in position one just to see how tight to the kerb I can get !

[S-Westerly]

I tend to stick to 2 and 3. 1 is close to the edge of the road where all the crap ends up and often potholes are bigger too. Depends on the road though and how well I know it. As to revs / gear  my current bike is quite torquey and will pull away in a higher gear. I don't really think about it too much - if the bike is doing what I want it to without complaining then I'm happy.

[Nute]

Ref counter steering, you cannot turn without a bit of counter steer, probably sub consciously, so we all do it anyway to some degree.