Road Safety - Rider Safety

[S-Westerly]

I had just that the other day coming out of Gloucester.  I filtered up past an Audi TT at some traffic lights on the A40 ring road. This obviously upset him as he accelerated hard to get ahead of me so I tucked in behind him at 70 mph and watched him zoom off into the distance to be clocked by the camera van that's there about 3 times a week.  He would probably have been doing 90 at that point. I caught up with him at the next roundabout where he was a bit more subdued.

[jedibiker]

Last few days I see alot of rants about Potholes..

 

Do you report them and how?

 

I use fixmystreet app. no idea if they back it up but the ones i reported did get an email from the council saying it will be done.

 

guy saw a gixxer hit a pothole, throw the bike across the road, she road through gravel and kept the bike up.. lucky.

[SometimesSansEngine]

Our council are pretty good if you report on fixmystreet. If there's areas you regularly ride you can set up email alerts of reports too, which can be useful

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

48 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

Last few days I see alot of rants about Potholes..

 

Do you report them and how?

 

I use fixmystreet app. no idea if they back it up but the ones i reported did get an email from the council saying it will be done.

 

guy saw a gixxer hit a pothole, throw the bike across the road, she road through gravel and kept the bike up.. lucky.

I report them online using the council website. The reason being if it's been reported and you then hit it and damage your bike/car the council are liable. If it wasn't reported they aren't. Which tends to make them fix them pretty quickly once reported.

 

Apart from the crater round the corner from our house where the manhole cover has broken. It's a good few inches below the road surface but will need the road closing as it's right in the middle on a blind bend.

[littlecat]

Get some advanced training and learn defensive riding...always assume everyone is out to kill you

[linuxrob]

+1 for fix my street.

 

https://www.fixmystreet.com/

 

 

[jedibiker]

14 hours ago, littlecat said:

Get some advanced training and learn defensive riding...always assume everyone is out to kill you

What have you done so far?

[Steve_M]

14 hours ago, littlecat said:

Get some advanced training and learn defensive riding...always assume everyone is out to kill you

Mostly agree.

 

I don’t agree with the “everyone is out to kill you”, though. I’d go for “every other road user makes mistakes or errors of judgement. Unpredictably”.

 

And to answer the follow up.

IAM, Hopp Better Riding days (Cadwell Park), i2i and RoSPA.

 

As well as other stuff to improve my bike handling ability. EG. Trail riding, Motogymkhana, ... 

[jedibiker]

Just now, Steve_M said:

Mostly agree.

 

I don’t agree with the “everyone is out to kill you”, though. I’d go for “every other road user makes mistakes or errors of judgement. Unpredictably”.

 

And to answer the follow up.

IAM, Hopp Better Riding days (Cadwell Park), i2i and RoSPA.

 

As well as other stuff to improve my bike handling ability. EG. Trail riding, Motogymkhana, ... 

Thats alot of great training.

I will be doing bikesafe, i2i is also top of the list. Which RoSPA would you start with as it says level 3, or do they advise.

[Stu]

42 minutes ago, Steve_M said:

Mostly agree.

 

I don’t agree with the “everyone is out to kill you”, though. I’d go for “every other road user makes mistakes or errors of judgement. Unpredictably”.

 

And to answer the follow up.

IAM, Hopp Better Riding days (Cadwell Park), i2i and RoSPA.

 

As well as other stuff to improve my bike handling ability. EG. Trail riding, Motogymkhana, ... 

 

Don't forget @littlecat says "assume" not that they are

 

If you treat them like they are then it's a bonus when they don't

 

[Steve_M]

2 hours ago, jedibiker said:

Thats alot of great training.

I will be doing bikesafe, i2i is also top of the list. Which RoSPA would you start with as it says level 3, or do they advise.

RoSPA and IAM both use Roadcraft as the basis of their training. They are, in terms of what they look for, much of a muchness.
 

With the benefit of having been part of each organisation, on local committees, and as tutor and observer, respectively, I would first meet up with members of the local group for each before making the decision what you want to do. These are the people who will be helping your riding develop and you need to understand if they’re people who you want to mix with, and if they’re  helpful. I’d also look at the way they work with you to develop your riding. When I first joined the IAM my observer was very prescriptive and didn’t like to be questioned. With hindsight, I should have looked for someone who guided, coached and made me think about my riding rather than try to instruct. When I became an observer I tried to encourage questions, or would ask the questions of the associate, rarely telling them what to do as no two situations are ever exactly the same... 

 

Just a thought...

[Steve_M]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

 

Don't forget @littlecat says "assume" not that they are

 

If you treat them like they are then it's a bonus when they don't

 

Ah, during my various IT roles it was always impressed on me to “never assume”... It makes an “ASS of U an ME”

[Stu]

27 minutes ago, Steve_M said:

Ah, during my various IT roles it was always impressed on me to “never assume”... It makes an “ASS of U an ME”

 

While that may be true 

 

If you assume a car driver is going to kill you and they don't then how is that making you an ASS? 

 

But if you don't assume and they do kill you does that then make you an ASS? or a dead ASS

 

I would rather be wrong by assuming they are going to kill me than wrong that they aren't going to 

[Steve_M]

20 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

While that may be true 

 

If you assume a car driver is going to kill you and they don't then how is that making you an ASS? 

 

But if you don't assume and they do kill you does that then make you an ASS? or a dead ASS

 

I would rather be wrong by assuming they are going to kill me than wrong that they aren't going to 

As I said initially. I work on the basis that they* all make mistakes or errors of judgement inconsistently. The outcome amounts to the same thing, the difference being that I don’t consider every other road user to be psychopaths intent on killing me. 

*since I make mistakes I include myself. I don’t set out to deliberately harm anyone. Which is why I make the distinction.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Steve_M

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, Steve_M said:

As I said initially. I work on the basis that they* all make mistakes or errors of judgement inconsistently. The outcome amounts to the same thing, the difference being that I don’t consider every other road user to be psychopaths intent on killing me. 

*since I make mistakes I include myself. I don’t set out to deliberately harm anyone. Which is why I make the distinction.

 

I know! I see it day in day out. Driving for a living makes you see all sorts of stupid stunts and also plenty of mistakes. 

 

And the point of treating everyone as if they are out to kill you is that when those silly mistakes happen you should be far enough away from them to react accordingly. 

 

Of course its not always the other parties fault! I have heard it many times that "the car suddenly braked and I ran in to the back of them" 

 

Suddenly or not they was travelling too close 

[SometimesSansEngine]

My only issue with the "everyone is out to kill you" mentality is I think it then precipitates some of the road rage and overreactions you see people get involved with. There is a slight mindset shift for the type of mentality that @Steve_M refers to. It's a fine line but it is there. Also I'd prefer to appreciate where people genuinely can't see or anticipate you

 

Possibly different spectrums to how people use it too. From chatting to some other riders they really do have the view that all other drivers really are murderous psychopaths who couldn't care less about scything through a motorcyclist, whereas I do think some others who use it know deep down that other people are fallible and instead do genuinely mean it as a mantra for a 'watch out for other people' mentality.

Edited April 10, 2021 by SometimesSansEngine
Hit enter too early like a doofus

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

As I have mentioned before, the most frequent word used in reporting accidents is "suddenly". Take that out of the equation and you put yourself in a safer place.

[SometimesSansEngine]

Another thing I'd agree with @Steve_M about, IAM vs ROSPA is likely to come down to what's available where you are and how you find the local group. There's all types of 'advanced riders' and some are definitely 'interesting'.

 

I joined my IAM group because one of the instructors I had on the day I fluffed up my first mod 1 was absolutely brilliant for me, and he'd mentioned the group he rode with. I had a taster session with them and liked the chap who took me out. My observer would start debriefs of incidents with "tell me about" or "tell me what was going through your mind when...", on occasion he'd agree he'd read a situation differently but could see where I was coming from. But I only ever went on one group ride with the group, I didn't care much for some of the people that I met or how they rode, and it helped me realise I much prefer just riding by myself or with my wife. But all along in my IAM experience it was made clear that if I had any issues with my observer I could request a change.

[jedibiker]

I think some are taking the term "everyone is out to kill you" as we think people want to harm, obviously not all do. And although I do act like everyone can harm me, I dont react crazy to every mistake people make, same as if i make a mistake and openly say sorry quick all is good.

 

its when someone does something they know to be dangerous then Il have words. In the car too.

[TimR]

4 hours ago, jedibiker said:

Thats alot of great training.

I will be doing bikesafe, i2i is also top of the list. Which RoSPA would you start with as it says level 3, or do they advise.

Level 3 is an acedemical based qualification ( no longer a  diploma but similar ) and aimed towards those that teach/instruct for a living .

You just need bog standard RoSPA 

search for   ROADAR which is the advanced riders and drivers .

 

Look at 

DVSA enhanced Riders Scheme as another Step towards Advanced Riding 

 

My journey  has consisted of and Resulted in 

X3 Bikesafe 

DVSA enhanced Riders 

11 Years Rospa Advanced (X9 Years Silver 2 years Gold  )

IAM First 

IAM Masters ( Distinction) 

 

Does this make me any safer ?

 

Best advice is look for reasons why not do to something rather than why you should..

Ie 

 straight Road with a few cars in  front....

Most Riders will go Game on...No opposing traffic... Overtake...

 

I look for the smallest reason not to overtake ...

 

 

In the distance   signs  showing left bend with a junction There are thousands of these across the country and we pass them every day with no issues.... But this is bordered by a yellow background ...This says to me that it has a History of Incidents and is  highlighting  that caution is to exercised and do i really want to be closing on this situation.

 

 

 Why Accelerate into a Dangerous Situation ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jedibiker]

17 minutes ago, TimR said:

Level 3 is an acedemical based qualification ( no longer a  diploma but similar ) and aimed towards those that teach/instruct for a living .

You just need bog standard RoSPA 

search for   ROADAR which is the advanced riders and drivers .

 

Look at 

DVSA enhanced Riders Scheme as another Step towards Advanced Riding 

 

My journey  has consisted of and Resulted in 

X3 Bikesafe 

DVSA enhanced Riders 

11 Years Rospa Advanced (X9 Years Silver 2 years Gold  )

IAM First 

IAM Masters ( Distinction) 

 

Does this make me any safer ?

 

Best advice is look for reasons why not do to something rather than why you should..

Ie 

 straight Road with a few cars in  front....

Most Riders will go Game on...No opposing traffic... Overtake...

 

I look for the smallest reason not to overtake ...

 

 

In the distance   signs  showing left bend with a junction There are thousands of these across the country and we pass them every day with no issues.... But this is bordered by a yellow background ...This says to me that it has a History of Incidents and is  highlighting  that caution is to exercised and do i really want to be closing on this situation.

 

 

 Why Accelerate into a Dangerous Situation ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I totally agree, I too look for hazards that most might not think of, also when in the car. And all the training will make you safer in most situations Id have thought, but you cant predict everything.

 

Its good to see what people have done.

[TimR]

41 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

I totally agree, I too look for hazards that most might not think of, also when in the car. And all the training will make you safer in most situations Id have thought, but you cant predict everything.

 

Its good to see what people have done.

Re am " i"safer for all this training?

 

Only if you put what you learn into practice.

 Anyone can put this facade in place throughout their test and show the Examiner what they want to see and pass . .

I know quite a few who passed their Advanced test but then fail to put the system into their riding and suffer as a result or others around them suffer .But on paper they are still classed as Advanced Riders .

 Rospa you need to retest every three years so if you want that mandatory skill test then go for them .IAM you can now also  take a Fellowship membership which requires you to retest each 3 years but you can just join under the  standard membership and pass for life ( as long as you are a member).

 

Biggest emphasis on Advanced Riding is to be a thinking rider and not ride by Rote .

 Which you don't have to be an Advanced Rider to understand or achieve ...

 

 

 

 

 

[Shepherd]

3 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

As I have mentioned before, the most frequent word used in reporting accidents is "suddenly". Take that out of the equation and you put yourself in a safer place.

The one thing that sticks in my head from a speed awareness course

(), is the phrase "he/she came from nowhere"  - as the guy at the front wrote it on the whiteboard he spelt the final word as NOW HERE.

It's the simple things that stick in my head ....

Edited April 10, 2021 by Shepherd

[SometimesSansEngine]

1 hour ago, Shepherd said:

The one thing that sticks in my head from a speed awareness course

(), is the phrase "he/she came from nowhere"  - as the guy at the front wrote it on the whiteboard he spelt the final word as NOW HERE.

It's the simple things that stick in my head ....

 

Not necessarily a simple thing in that sense but what did stick in my head from my speed awareness course a good 12 years ago....

 

When some of the attendees complained that when speed limits change downwards there's not enough time after seeing the sign to react and slow down to the new limit so it's unfair to site any speeding enforcement near a limit change, one of the people leading the course retorted "but it's funny how when the limit changes upwards people always see them well in the distance and start speeding up in advance of reaching them, hm?" 

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, SometimesSansEngine said:

 

Not necessarily a simple thing in that sense but what did stick in my head from my speed awareness course a good 12 years ago....

 

When some of the attendees complained that when speed limits change downwards there's not enough time after seeing the sign to react and slow down to the new limit so it's unfair to site any speeding enforcement near a limit change, one of the people leading the course retorted "but it's funny how when the limit changes upwards people always see them well in the distance and start speeding up in advance of reaching them, hm?" 

 

 

All this coincides with a couple of my other posts 

 

People are always looking for someone to blame! its never their fault