Car giving way to pedestrians

[keith1200rs]

54 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

On group rides I nearly always take the lead and one of my mates commented that he very rarely sees my brake light come on other than light trail braking on the twisty bits

I usually touch my brakes even when I don't need to as a warning to following vehicles that I am slowing down 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

12 minutes ago, keith1200rs said:

I usually touch my brakes even when I don't need to as a warning to following vehicles that I am slowing down 

Good practice which I use when riding solo. On group rides it's my mates behind me and we know each other well enough.

[Pie man]

Just completed a Bikesafe Course two weeks ago. One on one with Plod. He was very complimentary on my ride, saying he hardly saw my brake light and new I was implementing IPSGA. Yeah the car driver was at fault however, I couldn't tell if the motorcyclist eased off the gas and just carried on until it was too late. Who knows 

 

Must add, been riding 30+_yrs and still learning 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Pie man

[MikeHorton]

Good hazard perception does take a while but does help reduce braking massively. 'Never accelerate into a closing gap' is always a good rule. See loads of people racing to the next light or obstruction to stick the anchors on. 

[Pie man]

2 minutes ago, MikeHorton said:

Good hazard perception does take a while but does help reduce braking massively. 'Never accelerate into a closing gap' is always a good rule. See loads of people racing to the next light or obstruction to stick the anchors on. 

I see many accelerating and hard braking on my commute. Overtaking then braking hard making others brake - isn't that a fail 

[MikeHorton]

I think there was loads of research into motorway congestion, we've all been there massive tailback then nothing at the end. Cascading brake lights eventually grind it all to a stop like a domino effect. Problem is everyone drives tired either rushing to work cos ur late or rushing to get home and we all get tunnel vision I'm guilty of that sometimes. The worst are the journeys where you get to the other end and can't recall how you got there total auto pilot! 

[Breezin]

Away from generalities...

So actually  I left the house today and within 100 metres some nonce in a beemer stops at the T as I approach on the main road. He is wanting to pull out and turn right. As always, I observe that his wheels are stopped turning before  I proceed, at about 20-25mph.

About 15 yards out, a faulty chip in his head tells him to advance. Don't ask me why. My generously equipped horns, which are a feature on the Interceptor, go on, as do my brakes.He stops again, wearing an expression of utter bewilderment.

What did I do wrong?

Why is braking in these circumstances a 'fail'?

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

9 hours ago, Breezin said:

Away from generalities...

So actually  I left the house today and within 100 metres some nonce in a beemer stops at the T as I approach on the main road. He is wanting to pull out and turn right. As always, I observe that his wheels are stopped turning before  I proceed, at about 20-25mph.

About 15 yards out, a faulty chip in his head tells him to advance. Don't ask me why. My generously equipped horns, which are a feature on the Interceptor, go on, as do my brakes.He stops again, wearing an expression of utter bewilderment.

What did I do wrong?

Why is braking in these circumstances a 'fail'?

It is not. You were avoiding the need for braking in anger by observing the hazard, reduced speed, early application of the brakes. That is precisely the point.

 

The point made about the video is that an inexperienced rider seems to have been travelling at speed as they approached a vehicle they could clearly see was encroaching on their line of sight. Either they were travelling far too fast to begin with or failed to brake progressively and early.

 

The rider could have taken steps to mitigate the car driver's mistake. It would appear they did not.

[Breezin]

2 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

It is not. You were avoiding the need for braking in anger by observing the hazard, reduced speed, early application of the brakes. That is precisely the point.

 

The point made about the video is that an inexperienced rider seems to have been travelling at speed as they approached a vehicle they could clearly see was encroaching on their line of sight. Either they were travelling far too fast to begin with or failed to brake progressively and early.

 

The rider could have taken steps to mitigate the car driver's mistake. It would appear they did not.

All right. I think the problem here is my loose use of the phrase 'in anger'. By that I mean using them for real, as opposed to testing (as I was out on a brake test/bedding in ride). A measured response, not a frantic stoppie.

 

So we are not really in disagreement, except on the point of speeding. There is no evidence that the bike in this incident was speeding. On that basis, biker 100% innocent; driver 100% guilty; tabloid 100% wrong.

 

[Bender]

Biker doesn't t have to be speeding, just more aware and have an escape plan, we don't know what he was doing before he came into camera view or what the speed limit is, recognising a hazard and being prepared, worst case off to his left and miss the car or cautious enough to stop, you can't ride everywhere at 10mph but you have to assume everything and everyone is a hazard, junction hazard, pedestrians increased hazard, you can't mow them down, car waiting to turn major increase in hazard. 

 

You seem to think we have it in for the biker, we don't, but he could have lessened or mitigated it, as I said before bike has L plate so we have no way of knowing what experience he has. 

[MikeHorton]

I find my journeys are either v straight forward with no issues or everyone is out to kill me. Last big ride out to Wales from the Black Country I don't think I needed may brake much if any until I fuelled up in Aberystwyth. Some days on my commute into Birmingham anything is possible

[MikeHorton]

Nobody is having a go just making observations. I think we all know too well that the press have click bait headlinesthis was a short clip from 1 angle not enough to know what went on. 

I put the teapot one link on this thread take a look at this one it's the same ride different vlogger with different experience well worth watching both. 

It's safe to say whatever your experience there's always more to learn and important to observe a hazard before it becomes a collision most can be avoided you just need to know how to. Any extra skills courses are worth doing we spend a lot on our bikes and kit but not always on our riding skills. 5 years in between driving refreshers for me and every time I have to admit bad habits creep in and skills drop a little so good to brush up. 

[Breezin]

I don't think anyone here deliberately has it in for the biker. I do think some have been affected by the prevailing attitudes of officialdom and media in focusing on the rider's potential culpability rather than the facts.

 

S/he's a learner. So what,  beyond judgey assumptions? There is zero evidence against them but lots of suggestions as to best practice, with predictable conclusions drawn.

 

The driver, on the facts shown, is entirely and solely guilty of causing this accident.

 

You can do all the courses you want, and ride as carefully as you can, but you will never account for the fact that you are sharing the road with potentially lethal idiots, many of whom lately are busy on their phone. Let's not encourage them with misplaced reasonableness.

 

I'm quite sure that many of the bikers killed or maimed in these situations are perfectly competent and innocent.

[MikeHorton]

I'll happily agree with you

[MikeHorton]

 

For what it's worth we all have different opinions who knows who is right? 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by MikeHorton

[V650]

On 09/05/2022 at 21:46, Stu said:

 

The driving standards out there now is just shocking! 

Shocking how some of these people manage to get dressed in the morning never mind drive 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

12 minutes ago, V650 said:

Shocking how some of these people manage to get dressed in the morning never mind drive 

Half of them are still getting dressed as they drive. Which is half the problem. Modern car design seems to encourage people to do various tasks whilst driving so they get into the habit of driving as a secondary activity. 

[Bender]

1 hour ago, Breezin said:

I don't think anyone here deliberately has it in for the biker. I do think some have been affected by the prevailing attitudes of officialdom and media in focusing on the rider's potential culpability rather than the facts.

 

S/he's a learner. So what,  beyond judgey assumptions? There is zero evidence against them but lots of suggestions as to best practice, with predictable conclusions drawn.

 

The driver, on the facts shown, is entirely and solely guilty of causing this accident.

 

You can do all the courses you want, and ride as carefully as you can, but you will never account for the fact that you are sharing the road with potentially lethal idiots, many of whom lately are busy on their phone. Let's not encourage them with misplaced reasonableness.

 

I'm quite sure that many of the bikers killed or maimed in these situations are perfectly competent and innocent.

I don't know who you think is siding with tabloid clickbait or been swayed by officialdom  

 

The driver being at fault was never in question, being alert and mitigation was, being dead is scant consolation that the other party was 100% in the wrong. 

[MikeHorton]

48 minutes ago, Bender said:

I don't know who you think is siding with tabloid clickbait or been swayed by officialdom  

 

The driver being at fault was never in question, being alert and mitigation was, being dead is scant consolation that the other party was 100% in the wrong. 

It's not clickbait it's all factual reporting 

Edited May 11, 2022 by MikeHorton

[Joe85]

f**k the Sun.

[Bender]

57 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

Half of them are still getting dressed as they drive. Which is half the problem. Modern car design seems to encourage people to do various tasks whilst driving so they get into the habit of driving as a secondary activity. 

Many years ago I got rear ended by a pretty young lady who was putting on lipstick, would have been OK if she wasn't driving a mini at the time, luckily the landrover came off much better than the mini, she even said she didn't see me as she was looking in the mirror at the time. 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

8 hours ago, Bender said:

Many years ago I got rear ended by a pretty young lady who was putting on lipstick, would have been OK if she wasn't driving a mini at the time, luckily the landrover came off much better than the mini, she even said she didn't see me as she was looking in the mirror at the time. 

A very similar thing happened to me. A lady crashed into the back of me. I was actually up a mate's driveway which was on a bend. She failed to make the bend, came up the drive and ran into me.

 

She was very apologetic saying she'd been doing her hair in the mirror. 

 

What annoyed me most was I had a new model plane in the boot. It was destroyed before it's first flight.

[skyrider]

20 hours ago, Joe85 said:

f**k the Sun.

you mean it's as bad as the sunday sport 

[Bender]

38 minutes ago, skyrider said:

you mean it's as bad as the sunday sport 

It's not that factual  

[Erin0110]

Oh my god, according to the video, it's definitely driver's fault