Bandit Woes

[caveman]

I am looking for a little inspiration on removing stubborn header bolts on a bandit 600.

The bike is currently being stripped down to the bare frame for powder coating. However getting the exhaust detached has become a mission.

The previous owner obviously struggled to remove it in the past and gave in, The muppet welded the can, link pipe and headers as one.

I would like to save the headers and don't relish the though of drilling them out, if they can come out clean it would be fabulous!

The butter bolts are so far gone that no Allen key will ever fit them, so far I have managed to remove 6 of the 8 with a varying techniques. locking pliers on the ones that are accessible, welding nuts onto others and cutting groves into others. I have even uttered the magic words...move ya ba$%ard!!!

Sods law would have it the last ones are the top 2 which are a bit deeper and hard to get to.

Any suggestions or removing them would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mr Fro]

I've had luck on stuff like that by hammering in slightly oversized torx bits.

[Tiggie]

I gave up trying to remove them on my old intruder. I rounded them out into two little perfect circles using my impact wrench

Drilling them out was the only option and I couldn't be arsed

[TimR]

Dremel like tool cutting heads off at least gives you some stud to purchase on after headers removed.

Drill the heads off with increasing larger drill bits again allow s some stud to remain.

Would suggest hammering torx fitting in there bit if they are that tight then i doubt it will do anything

[fastbob]

You seem to have covered every technique I was going to suggest other than take the heads off , remove the exhaust and use a stud extractor . However , having just broken a new 8mm stud extractor trying to get two exhaust studs out of my ER5 , I'm hardly in a position to recommend this option really . There are different kinds of stud extractor but options are limited in such a confined space . I haven't tried this type yet so I might give them a go . I think you could leave the heads on the bolts with this thing or something of a similar style .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252574416185

[WD-40]

If you can weld I think that is the most effective way to get a stuck bolt out. If you get a washer and a nut with an inner diameter greater than the outer diameter of the stuck bolt so the nut and washer fit over the stuck bolt and then weld the whole lot together. Work the bolt back and forward. If the weld breaks do it a few times and hopefully the heat cycles will break the bolt free.

[Bender]

Drill die grind tops off if hammering something into them won't work. Get rid of exhaust see if you have room then to put a nut over the stud and weld it on

[fastbob]

Good point about working backwards and forwards .

[Guest Swagman]

Weld the Allen key in the hole.

[fastbob]

Weld the Allen key in the hole.

 

Good idea . Or weld an Allen socket so there's less effect of torsion .

[fastbob]

Hello ......https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/all-hand-tools/laser-damaged-hex-bolt-extractor-set-7pc-208622.html?cm_mmc=Google+PLA-_-Tools%3EHand+Tools%3EAll+Hand+Tools-_-Tools%3EHand+Tools%3EAll+Hand+Tools-_-208622&istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istFeedId=62b447cf-331e-4fec-a47a-9985ff72d404&istItemId=ittamtrtm&istBid=tzwt&_$ja=tsid:94971|cid:8979078227|agid:94446562287|tid:aud-80976661069:pla-331014971495|crid:412800844943|nw:g|rnd:10792338467818578225|dvc:m|adp:|mt:|loc:1006656&gclid=CjwKCAjwrKr8BRB_EiwA7eFapuAobIAeDzKo9MDOhwfxALLP9DOfqUM4UalONb4Md7v67DVWNKIHPxoCsjcQAvD_BwE Or this one . I wish I'd known these existed years ago . Just never occurred to me . https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Q3-Damaged-Distorted-Hex-Allen-Key-Bolt-Screw-Extractor-Tool-Set-1-5mm-10mm/361929569374?ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?ff3=2&pub=5575376664&toolid=10044&campid=5338268676&customid=CjwKCAjwrKr8BRB_EiwA7eFapuSN1-KcYw9_ZUWsOTuR_dL6MKw-XmjS8zIcwhwYzZEHTUiC9426ahoCNagQAvD_BwE&lgeo=1&item=361929569374&srcrot=710-53481-19255-0&rvr_id=2646068692609&rvr_ts=36916d451750a99b27d2ba6effd60009&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true&pageci=fcc2f275-227c-493d-bc1e-f02ff3d21d7d

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[caveman]

Cheers guys...

Some good ideas there, I think i will give the Halfords Allen extractors a try and see if they can get a decent hold, otherwise its gonna be the drill.

failing that its knocking the bolt heads off and removing the stubs later......and if none of that works I will get the missus to shout at it!.

For the moment i have stepped away from it....and give it the occasion glancing dirty look when passing.

I managed to get a couple of the others out with this contraption, before space became an issue.

[fastbob]

Walking away is often a winning strategy where stuck bolts are concerned . Things can look very different in the morning .

[skyrider]

you could aways give them a good spray with plus gas leave them for a few days and then try again, it worked for me on the cb 500 manifold bolts

[caveman]

I have never heard of plus gas before, but look like It might just give it the edge I need with the Allen extractors.

I will place an order this morning and should be here mid week. Then let them soak for the rest of the week before having another crack.

[skyrider]

yes it has been around for a long time decent stuff

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I have used PlusGas for years on classic cars, it is excellent for freeing seized bolts. But occasionally it fails and then the trick is a second application of PlusGas immediately followed by a spray of WD40.

WD40 is a dispersant so it drives the PlusGas into the seized bit. On 40+ year old cars, ie total rust buckets, this has only failed twice. In one case I had to resort to drilling out, in the other heat, plenty of heat, then use an impact drive in both directions. Both clockwise and anticlockwise can shift stuck bits.

In really serious cases swearing in Greek works well. It is a much more satisfying language to swear in.

[caveman]

Cheers guys for all the suggestions.

I soaked those bad boys in Plus gas, WD40 and a plethora of heat, nothing has shifted them. The location of the studs make it difficult to access even with the cooler removed. I have tried all manner of stud, hex and bolt extractors as well as welding nuts onto the heads...they just wont move in anyone's lifetime

I even managed to get some locking pliers on and tried rocking them backwards and forwards with loads of pressure, but they just refuse to budge. The Allen extractors just sheared off, the nuts I welded on just rounded or snapped off...the heads are now starting to look a little worse for wear and I finally admit defeat.

So it's out with the drill and off with the heads, At least if I get the heads off I can remove the exhaust and deal with the studs that are left with better access.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Have you tried Semtex? I can ask the local mine if I can borrow some.

[fastbob]

Cheers guys for all the suggestions.

I soaked those bad boys in Plus gas, WD40 and a plethora of heat, nothing has shifted them. The location of the studs make it difficult to access even with the cooler removed. I have tried all manner of stud, hex and bolt extractors as well as welding nuts onto the heads...they just wont move in anyone's lifetime

I even managed to get some locking pliers on and tried rocking them backwards and forwards with loads of pressure, but they just refuse to budge. The Allen extractors just sheared off, the nuts I welded on just rounded or snapped off...the heads are now starting to look a little worse for wear and I finally admit defeat.

So it's out with the drill and off with the heads, At least if I get the heads off I can remove the exhaust and deal with the studs that are left with better access.

 

I can feel your pain . Why do Suzuki even use bolts into the head to hold on an exhaust ? Studs and brass nuts are the way to go . I was always having to check and tweak the bolts on my GSXR's and I always cringed when I tightened then . And if any of the Torque Wrench believers are reading , NO I didn't use one . I used my hands , my senses , my experience and my judgement . And I never ended up trying to do a horizontal Helicoil .

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Why do Suzuki even use bolts into the head to hold on an exhaust ?

 

Because bolts are 2 cents cheaper than bolts and problems won't occur until it's way out of warranty.

Sounds like there's reaction between the different metals going on which means drilling out is the only option.

[skyrider]

when you get them out replace them with brass ones then you shouldn't have this trouble next time

[caveman]

when you get them out replace them with brass ones then you shouldn't have this trouble next time

 

Just had a quick browse and steel studs with copper/brass nuts are the way forward, that is once I get the old ones out.

I have walked away from it for a few days, although the large hammer sat next to was very tempting!

Fortunately I have another build on to keep me occupied and take my mind away from the bandit. Once I reach that placid state of garage karma I will approach it again with positive mental attitude...for at lest the first two minutes.

[skyrider]

is that just before you reach for the big hammer

[caveman]

is that just before you reach for the big hammer

 

you have no idea how tempting that hammer was, it was inching closer to the bandit on each attempt.

I drilled the remaining heads off and removed the exhaust and still they wouldn't move, even with the better access. I ended up re-welding nuts onto the stubs and winding them backwards and forwards for the next couple of hours..but they eventually all came out clean

I can finally progress on with the build, cheers guys