Child Access ... Stories, Help and Discussion.

[Bender]

@fullscreenaging I feel your pain. I was lucky I managed to get my kids names returned when she changed them, csa I was fine with,  they wanted way less than I had been paying, she tried to get it back dated and claimed she didn't get a penny, apart from 1 payment everything was by cheque so she had no joy there.

 

She shot herself in the foot when she got csa involved.

[fullscreenaging]

5 hours ago, Bender said:

@fullscreenaging I feel your pain. I was lucky I managed to get my kids names returned when she changed them, csa I was fine with,  they wanted way less than I had been paying, she tried to get it back dated and claimed she didn't get a penny, apart from 1 payment everything was by cheque so she had no joy there.

 

She shot herself in the foot when she got csa involved.

The thing that really upsets me is my son now has a son and neither of them have my name. 
My son still has to carry his birth certificate and declare that he was known by another name but even after me trying to persuade him to get it changed back he hasn’t. (I still think his mother has a controlling influence over him and he can’t be doing with the fallout)

So now my grandson is officially known by another man’s name. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by fullscreenaging

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Being in the fortunate position of never having experienced anything like this I can only express my respect for those who survive and refuse to be crushed by these experiences. It is a good thing to share the experience and advice.

 

In our family we are facing something horrible but not along the same lines. But it is seeing the family torn apart and some people who we thought we knew turn out to be cruel and manipulative. 

 

I am constantly amazed in what I do by the courage and resilience of people who refuse to be defined by what has been done to them. In some small way it is a constant privelege to be part of how they rebuild and start again.

[onesea]

On 25/01/2021 at 10:15, Tiggie said:

My Wife's Biological Dad (The man she thought of as her Dad was her Mums second husband, he brought her up from age 11) apparently kept himself on the dole for years out of spite to make sure he didn't have to pay child support!!

 

Edit: not "apparently" as he has told me first hand thats what he did!!

With the CMS you still have to pay on the dole just the amount is piffling the calculator is there:. 
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance
The amount is not much however as your income is low.

I have no fear of the CMS they are an improvement on the CSA, as I understand however there are floors:

• Once under there banner I don't think you can escape, any over payment is considered voluntary and cannot be looked back on so if you double pay one month your still expected to pay the next,
• There is no middle ground even in joint access who ever gets 1 day more (remember 365 days a year) has to maintenance,
• Maintenance is calculated on ALL income including expenses and I think even your pension.  This is however only brought on by people going self employed and paying themselves in expenses/ pension.
• One word for anyone going into this, your review date is unchangeable (mine is near enough my birthday, yes that manipulated by someone). 
• No matter if your paying maintenance as by court order of not after 6 months (i think) the resident parent can put you under the CMS.

You can think your getting a clean break hand over the house and all your worldly belongings, get it signed of and then have the CMS on you for money.  My advice as soon as it goes acrimonious use them or write your finances in line with it.

There is also a difference between maintenance paid to mum and child, the CMS sort child, mother is decided between solicitors/ court.

For me the CMS have stopped me having to send copies of accounts to her for each year and then getting them scrutinised by my X-father in law.  They have reduced the stress and conflict.

Luckily I never fell under the banner of the CSA, although she tried,  by all accounts where not fit for purpose.

 @fullscreenaging @Tiggie my partner will not allow my daughter to call her mum (daughter does though to wind her up).  I have had to accept I am the second dad, I don't know how I am referred to at mums. Here her mum is her mum or her name there is no distinction.
Then I think still  insists on being called a particular version of "mum" "mummy" or "mother" by her children 

A mother should not change a child's name without the fathers permission how well this is adhered to I don't know.  Schools are terrible for dropping names and changing them without permission .   These matters can and should be clamped down on by authorities, if not there is no point having the law.

When my daughter and mum asked me to change her name when she was about 8, I told them at 12 she could make that decision.  At 12 I asked her again and she said no

[Bender]

Old csa weren't that bad, I think alot of it comes from folk simply not wanting to pay for kids and trying anyway to get out of it, what was bad was how they went about administering it.

 

I got a call at 6pm in a shopping center from a withheld number asking me to confirm who I was,ie give my name addy, dob and ni number, I refused on the grounds they could have been anyone.

 

I was told that I could not call them back and if I refused to give details I would be classed as being uncooperative and would incur further charges, fuckwits, I refused

 

Schools yup they will change kids names or they used to at the drop of a hat, especially if you swap schools to do it as my ex did.

 

They don't however like the threat of legal action and all costs being levied against them, that was a bonus for having a good solicitor at hand, few docs from old school  csa and doctors and school had them back to correct names.

 

That however came with a cost, the school then refused to deal with me as a parent as we were not married I was one of the lucky ones not classed legaly as a parent with parental responsibility, first application to court gain parental responsibility.

 

Funny how the csa gave me automatic parenteral responsibility.

 

[onesea]

An update from my side, I am being allowed to see my daughter out side at 2m distance.  I saw her Monday, for 20 minutes we got cold.   I did not see her yesterday it was raining,  I will probably not have the opportunity again for 2 weeks.
This could continue for up to 5 months.

I have contacted mediator:
Highlighting lies during the mediation process,
Miss information during a mediation session,
Potential breaches in COVID regulations (grandparent in house under present rules( they say just once)),
Stopping of access during the mediation process,
- Awaiting reply.

I have taken other advice from a solicitor (one advantage of work) there advice.  Given the situation there basic advice was to keep with mediation process,  I highlighted the access situation probably March before it will get better and potentially up to 5 months.

The only other option is to look to the courts for breach of court order, obstructing access. 
However they only need "a reasonable excuse", "we miss a read PHE article" would the magistrate on the day see that as "a reasonable excuse " against ignoring government guidelines
"Unless there are justified medical/ self-isolation issues, (or some future nationally issued guidance or expectation associated with leaving the house in your area) children should also maintain their usual routine of spending time with each of their parents. If there is a Child Arrangements Order in place this should be complied with unless to do so would put your child, or others at risk. This will help your child to feel a sense of consistency, whilst also reassuring them that the parent they don't always live with is safe and healthy."

FYI  this is the article that is stopping access:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/past-covid-19-infection-provides-some-immunity-but-people-may-still-carry-and-transmit-virus

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

40 minutes ago, onesea said:

A mother should not change a child's name without the fathers permission how well this is adhered to I don't know.  Schools are terrible for dropping names and changing them without permission .   These matters can and should be clamped down on by authorities, if not there is no point having the law.

When my daughter and mum asked me to change her name when she was about 8, I told them at 12 she could make that decision.  At 12 I asked her again and she said no

I am not an expert on this but I do have some background in children's names and the law, the training I received was some years ago so things may have changed - but it used to be the case that once registered a child's name could not be changed until their 18th birthday except by deed poll which requires the consent of everyone who has parental responsibility or a court order (the latter I believe would look for the former in any case). The one exception to this is where a child is baptised under a different name up to the age of 12 months. After 12 months that option is void.

 

As you say, there's no guarantee the law is followed. In my capacity in school governance I have on a couple of occasions supported headteachers refusing to change a child's name where it clearly hadn't been agreed by all concerned. When people use children as weapons it gets ugly and I tend to be suspicious of those who use children in this way.

[onesea]

11 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I am not an expert on this but I do have some background in children's names and the law, the training I received was some years ago so things may have changed - but it used to be the case that once registered a child's name could not be changed until their 18th birthday except by deed poll which requires the consent of everyone who has parental responsibility or a court order (the latter I believe would look for the former in any case). The one exception to this is where a child is baptised under a different name up to the age of 12 months. After 12 months that option is void.

 

As you say, there's no guarantee the law is followed. In my capacity in school governance I have on a couple of occasions supported headteachers refusing to change a child's name where it clearly hadn't been agreed by all concerned. When people use children as weapons it gets ugly and I tend to be suspicious of those who use children in this way.

This is true all with parental responsibility parties have to consent I believe at 11 or 12 the child now has "a voice" so can change names.

Would love you as school governor, you might not of allowed the things I have listed before.

Its similar for changing and moving schools, both parents should give consent or the child should not change schools.  However this is rarely enforced.

I have had to turn up the reception of  4 schools with my court order and contact details and introduce myself, the schools are naturally suspicious. 
Learning to wait until they try not keeping me upto date before pointing out my child should not be attending there school as I had not given permission.
Now I am prepared to over look this if they follow the rest of their obligations.

Present school I have to book parents evening over the telephone when the slots are all full because "the computer system cannot deal with 2  separated parents"

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

16 minutes ago, onesea said:

Present school I have to book parents evening over the telephone when the slots are all full because "the computer system cannot deal with 2  separated parents"

Sometimes I just weep at how institutions treat people. Of course a school can find a way to look after families where parents are separated.

 

The last but one school I worked at we used to take groups up into the mountains of Wales gorge walking. We went in January because it was cheaper then and our parents couldn't afford to pay for the prices over the summer. We had a class of 10 & 11 year olds, 30 children, only one of them had both parents at home (which was our eldest daughter - the one who is expecting a baby in March). The practicalities of 29 out of 30 children needing additional arrangements wasn't easy but the school did a brilliant job. Those children never took friendship and loyalty for granted. They knew the hard way why such things matter. 

 

One icy day we got to top of a gorge and the instructor from the climbing centre said it was the most amazing group he'd ever worked with. He'd never got a party more than halfway up that gorge even in the summer. In ice cold water our lot backed one another up and encouraged each other so everyone made it to the top. He was well impressed. I never forgot that day. Those children, and their variety of families and households, were an inspiration.

 

To be fair we had a headteacher who fought like a tiger for the children, no child got left out or left behind. It's not a matter of what computer systems can deal with, it's a matter of whether people want to make things possible or not.

[Bender]

Once I got parental responsibility, I found the schools were fine, @Mississippi Bullfrog unfortunately what the law says and what should be done means little when your dealing with a deranged ex bent on destroying your relationship with kids.

 

Most of the time it was simply down to believing the mother and taking her word for things, which can't be blamed on the schools she was very believable.

[onesea]

Just thought I would update for that it all goes quite… I put the dates I managed to get from work for next years summer holidays they got refused.

 

”Firstly it was never mums intention to do mediation and in her book a total waste of money plus an enormous amount of stress and pressure put on Child, something that makes Mums furious that she was put through. Mum never wanted Child to be put through that dreadful damaging  experience, something that was not needed as access was already given and Mediation proved this.
Nothing was achieved from mediation except that Child’s wishes are to be 100% listened to”

 

Reason I started mediation? Mother not listening to child, mediation highlighted this.

 

So mediation nul and void court order so old and out of date that it no longer applies….  Child struggling with being put in the middle, I don’t know where to go.  I am not certain the effects caught will have on child they REALY Struggled with being a young teen and mediation.
 

Well over a decade of this now….

[Fozzie]

That's genuinely horrible...

 

And it really bothers me that as I hit 30, quite a few friends are going through this sort of thing. It disproportionately seems to end badly for the man, not that it doesn't happen the other way. A friend of mine in Scotland came close to suicide over it, so well done for just carrying on as you have pal!

 

Really puts me off having kids, as if it goes wrong, you don't know how they will handle the rejection etc. If it was their behaviour that caused the split, even if you agree to keep it private, some people act defensively by unfortunately destroying your image with revenge stories while in a very emotional way. Which makes things very difficult if you then have to co-parent with them as they try to uphold this image they've created. Was saddened to read some of the stories on this thread.

[Bender]

Kids are rarely the problem, it's the twats that use them and and anything else they can to exact  revenge or cause grief. 

[onesea]

10 hours ago, Fozzie said:

came close to suicide over it,

More common than you would think. Look at the statistics, many more men kill themselves than die on motorbikes…

 

So if your left alone go for a bike ride..  

 

Just don’t do it when pissed with your X or she might get her wish…

 

Yes I only have the one child because of the problems..

[Fozzie]

On 11/08/2021 at 22:07, onesea said:

More common than you would think. Look at the statistics, many more men kill themselves than die on motorbikes…

 

 

 

It's creeping up towards 4 men to every 1 woman now in the stats. 

 

There's also the side effect now, in that it's causing "incels" numbers to quickly multiply, as seen unfortunately with the Plymouth killings. I encountered one last year and they are a scary bunch.

 

Makes you worry how many of these will be fathers, as if change is only brought because they are being violent, the cause for the suicide rate will likely go overlooked again.

 

[Six30]

On 11/08/2021 at 12:21, Bender said:

Kids are rarely the problem, it's the twats that use them and and anything else they can to exact  revenge or cause grief. 

 

just say it ..... Women , their blood turns to venom.... use the child as a weapon with no thought for the child

[Bender]

15 minutes ago, Six30 said:

 

just say it ..... Women , their blood turns to venom.... use the child as a weapon with no thought for the child

I'm sure it works the other way too. 

[Six30]

20 minutes ago, Bender said:

I'm sure it works the other way too. 

 

very rarely , why would a bloke want a kid with him full time.... Sunday afternoon then give the little shit back

[Bender]

10 minutes ago, Six30 said:

 

very rarely , why would a bloke want a kid with him full time.... Sunday afternoon then give the little shit back

Me, it didn't happen, so now with the influence of the mother they are a drain on society as is she, and the other 2 kids she had because they were going to scare her with work will also be a drain on society,  bitter, you bet. 

[Fozzie]

Is there any hope of reversing that? 

 

I ask as there's a couple of guys going through a tough time that just seems to have no end in sight. 

It does go the other way, not as much admittedly as I can only think of one I've ever helped. Mostly guys just add to the trouble, trying to be the knight in shining armour, playing witness to one of the revenge stories as they think it will get them laid. 

 

 

[Bender]

19 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Is there any hope of reversing that? 

 

I ask as there's a couple of guys going through a tough time that just seems to have no end in sight. 

It does go the other way, not as much admittedly as I can only think of one I've ever helped. Mostly guys just add to the trouble, trying to be the knight in shining armour, playing witness to one of the revenge stories as they think it will get them laid. 

 

 

No fear of knights with my ex, they just end up as victims. 

 

My kids are big enough now to sort themselves out and they can have help if they want it but they are pretty much programmed now. 

 

Don't envy anyone stuck in it or just starting. 

[onesea]

16 hours ago, Fozzie said:

Is there any hope of reversing that? 

 

I ask as there's a couple of guys going through a tough time that just seems to have no end in sight. 

It does go the other way, not as much admittedly as I can only think of one I've ever helped. Mostly guys just add to the trouble, trying to be the knight in shining armour, playing witness to one of the revenge stories as they think it will get them laid. 

 

 

My answer is yes and no.  Few separate parents have a perfect relationship,

some manage amicable, and so it goes down from there.

Random data here, you can bend it as you wish.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1YpEFpKx9AbBQxsnahhHUe9Yfnf7gX11QreAqgUMqlas/htmlview#

 

Reversal often happens well past childhood, although it depends on many factors how it goes.

 

I am aware I am rare in a non amicable split and child wants to see dad a decade later, as teenager. Most loose meaningful contact in a few years, alienation, or drop out dad depending on many things.

What I have done?

• I have fought silently mainly in the back ground, schools, the council, sports clubs, headmasters (multiple), Drs just about everywhere
• I have listened to child when asked me to stop,
• I have chosen battles carefully,
• tried to maintain contact,
• tried not to bad mouth mum (allot harder than you think),
• listened to daughter complain about mum and supported mums side!
• supported daughter every which way, I can.
• not made birthdays, easters, Christmas special, they can be a month late as long as they get that special day. It solves allot of fighting,
• I have made lots of mistakes,
• never make a promise you cannot keep, that matters to children,
• used courts, free legal advice, support lines, taken police advice, contact my MP (who took it to the VERY top of child law in uk) for clarification,

 

Advice: 

• NEVER LOOSE MORAL UPPER GROUND
• Keep communication to email and keep every one,
• keep a diary,
• when child is aware your fighting, it’s not over THEM it’s about what’s BEST for them,
• If you cannot say or writ before or after something “in my child’s best interests” you should not be saying or doing it.
• avoided solicitors mediation is easy without solicitor so is first round of court, cannot speak for beyond that but you learn as you go. PM Me for basic advice
• be ready for long term success and failure it feels very personal,

 

 

 

 

[Fozzie]

Cheers, I'll pass this along the chain.

 

One of them has kind of stabilised, but the other, Lee is really going through it. And what's not helped is he does rise to his ex's provocations from time to time, which then fuels another 3 months of no contact. Which he's probably right in saying, would stop if the money stopped.

I seem to be hitting that age where it's just starting for some, and from what I've seen so far its affect on a breakup is like throwing jet fuel on a housefire. 

 

Social media also doesn't help things, especially for my generation that grew up with it. It sensationalises things more than the Sun newspaper. I once got threatening messages from people told I'd refused to move out. The bit they hadn't been told was a few days prior I'd been given the choice with a friend mediating "try one more time, or 1 month to get out". I chose the latter, which upset them and they tried to go back on it a couple of days later. This effect has caused havoc with dads. 

[onesea]

33 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

not helped is he does rise to his ex's provocations from time to time, which then fuels

My suggestion all communication by email and he gets a 3rd party to proof read emails to remove any possible provocations.  
 

 I am running out of people to proof read mine after so long!
 

If you cannot say or writ before or after something “in my child’s best interests” you should not be saying or doing it.

Edited August 19, 2021 by onesea

[onesea]

On 27/01/2021 at 09:58, onesea said:

FYI  this is the article that is stopping access:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/past-covid-19-infection-provides-some-immunity-but-people-may-still-carry-and-transmit-virus

I don’t think I ever mentioned my solution to this article:

 

“Thank you for forwarding the PHE study which notes the possibility that individuals may be able to pass the virus on after having had it. Whilst I note this study, it to my mind does not change the Government guidance that in the current lockdown a “reasonable excuse” to be outside of one’s house continues to include “existing arrangements for contact between parents and children where they live apart”.”

President of the Family Division of the High Court (The Rt. Hon. Sir Andrew McFarlane)

This was all provided by my local MP so next election he will get my vote.
 

That brought an abrupt end to mediation in my favour.  At 15 my daughter now knows how mediation ended.  Not many kids find there access went to the highest authority in the land.

 

At 15 she is also choosing how she spends her time and at the moment. Mother still plays her games although these Sometimes I see more sometimes I see less, either way it’s her choice.

She is not afraid to make that clear.