Harry Dunn. CBT?

[S-Westerly]

Certainly no justice with teeth. The yanks almost never extradite one of their own (absolutely never?). They're very keen to get Brits into their paws and then they put loads of pressure on to plea bargain. You plead guilty and get a short sentence in a country club open prison. Fight the case and risk 50 years without parole in some hell hole prison getting real friendly with Bubba.

[Davidtav]

I’m sure there are also accidents abroad caused by British folk driving on the wrong side. It would be a lot safer if every country drove on the same side. 
 

Very sad situation for the family of Harry Dunn. I have every sympathy 

[S-Westerly]

1 hour ago, Davidtav said:

I’m sure there are also accidents abroad caused by British folk driving on the wrong side. It would be a lot safer if every country drove on the same side. 
 

Very sad situation for the family of Harry Dunn. I have every sympathy 

Given India, Japan and a lot of former British territory drive on the left I don't think there's much chance of a change to driving on the wrong side.

[Davidtav]

2 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Given India, Japan and a lot of former British territory drive on the left I don't think there's much chance of a change to driving on the wrong side.

Probably right. But Sweden did it in 1967. I believe it would be a good idea. Although obviously a massive undertaking. And much more difficult now than in the 60s. With more complex road junctions etc

[MikeHorton]

To make t fair what don't we all just drive/ride in the middle? No left and right then

[fastbob]

23 hours ago, Pbassred said:

The death of a motorcyclist - particularly a young one is heartbreaking.  Does anyone know what licence he had.  What type of bike he was on? Since he was 19, I suspect it was a CBT.

Now please don't take this the wrong way but to get back to the original question . Can I ask why you need to know ? And can I also ask why you can't find out for yourself ? It has occurred to me that anyone Googling Harry Dunn is likely to stumble upon this thread and perhaps they might , at best , be a little puzzled by some of the content particularly if they have an emotional link to the subject matter . 

Edited December 16, 2021 by fastbob

[Blackholesun]

I'm assuming he had an A2 licence? Disgusting she won't come back and face justice even of justice would be minimal jail time.id like to think I would do the right thing..we should never extradite an UK citizen the the USA

[bonio]

21 hours ago, Davidtav said:

Probably right. But Sweden did it in 1967. 

They did. If you were driving a midnight on Jan 1, you had stop the car, slowly drive onto the opposite carriageway and continue your journey. It went fine until 9 months later when they had spate of wrong-side-of the-road accidents, probably as people relaxed into it and stopped concentrating. 

 

[S-Westerly]

9 hours ago, bonio said:

They did. If you were driving a midnight on Jan 1, you had stop the car, slowly drive onto the opposite carriageway and continue your journey. It went fine until 9 months later when they had spate of wrong-side-of the-road accidents, probably as people relaxed into it and stopped concentrating. 

 

Somewhat less cars in Sweden then as well. 

[Davidtav]

13 hours ago, bonio said:

They did. If you were driving a midnight on Jan 1, you had stop the car, slowly drive onto the opposite carriageway and continue your journey. It went fine until 9 months later when they had spate of wrong-side-of the-road accidents, probably as people relaxed into it and stopped concentrating. 

 

According to Wikipedia (which may not be correct) a little more complex than that. All non essential traffic banned for six hours. And essential traffic had a switchover at 4am with a complete traffic ban for ten minutes. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H

[Pbassred]

Quote

Now please don't take this the wrong way but to get back to the original question . Can I ask why you need to know ? And can I also ask why you can't find out for yourself ? It has occurred to me that anyone Googling Harry Dunn is likely to stumble upon this thread and perhaps they might , at best , be a little puzzled by some of the content particularly if they have an emotional link to the subject matter . 

Try Googleing "Harry Dunn" and you will find a lot of emotive newspaper articles but little detail.  I expected that it would be a CBT rider since that content is extremely limited.  It takes more than a single act of gross incompitance to cause an accident. We've all seen it and its easy to apportion 100% of blame. A modern A2 is actually quite advanced. I still don't know exacty what happened. 

I don't know what the Swedish nonsence is all about.

[DR1]

18 minutes ago, Pbassred said:

It takes more than a single act of gross incompitance to cause an accident.

Really?

[S-Westerly]

From what I understand there was a slight rise in the road and the oncoming car was not visible to him. Given it was on the wrong side of the road at the time and he wouldn't have expected it there you can hardly blame the lad. The daft bint driving the car yes.

[Bender]

13 minutes ago, S-Westerly said:

From what I understand there was a slight rise in the road and the oncoming car was not visible to him. Given it was on the wrong side of the road at the time and he wouldn't have expected it there you can hardly blame the lad. The daft bint driving the car yes.

Closing speed would have been a big factor especially sighting the car last at last second 

[fastbob]

I have hinted at this before . Does this discussion serve any purpose ? Perhaps we should be mindful that any of the deceased's family and friends could accidentally stumble upon this thread by googling certain key words . 

[Bender]

Half the discussions on here serve little to no purpose, I have seen nothing in this thread that holds Harry in anything other than a good light, he was a very keen biker who met a tragic and untimely end at the hands of a coward who used diplomatic channels to avoid the law. 

 

I would have thought Harry would have no issues with us talking about him and keeping his memory alive. 

 

If this serves no purpose other than re-enforce the fact that on 2 wheels your never really safe then even that's not a bad thing. 

[fastbob]

23 minutes ago, Bender said:

Half the discussions on here serve little to no purpose, I have seen nothing in this thread that holds Harry in anything other than a good light, he was a very keen biker who met a tragic and untimely end at the hands of a coward who used diplomatic channels to avoid the law. 

 

I would have thought Harry would have no issues with us talking about him and keeping his memory alive. 

 

If this serves no other purpose other than re-enforce the fact that on 2 wheels your never really safe then even that's not a bad thing. 

Fair enough , that's an equally valid view . 

[Stu]

I would also say that Harry's family have done nothing but ask for support and finding justice and I would say that this thread would be helping that 

[Bee M. Dubya]

On 15/12/2021 at 20:50, Spongefinger said:

I have been following this and it really has made me very angry. How the USA whipped her out of the UK and refused pretty much to give and help at all and in fact seemed to do all it could to stop her having to take responsibility for her actions. At one point his parents went to the US with what they believed was to be get meeting with her but she didn't attend even though she was in the same building as as far as I know she has never directly contacted or apologized to his parents only in statements read by lawyers. She's just a coward hiding behind red tape to escape justice for what she did....I maybe and hope I am wrong but truly believe absolutely no kind of justice will be served against her

She wanted to meet them - they refused to meet her. She has tried many times to contact them and they refused to communicate with her.

[Bee M. Dubya]

On 15/12/2021 at 09:05, Gerontious said:

No, He had a full, though restricted license. Im not much of an expert of recognising sports bikes.. second photo. Dunn on his bike.

 

 

I'm assuming he got an A2 on his 19th birthday. But the police statement said he was riding a black Kawasaki in the fatal accident, not a green one. So we don't know what type it was. But unlike the two previous accidents Harry Dunn was involved in (according to his brother), this one took place at night at the brow of a hill, so was unavoidable.

[billy sugger]

13 minutes ago, Bee M. Dubya said:

She wanted to meet them - they refused to meet her. She has tried many times to contact them and they refused to communicate with her.

Where did you get that info from? 

[Bee M. Dubya]

Just now, billy sugger said:

Where did you get that info from? 

She was at the White House, and they refused to meet her there, and her lawyers issued statements saying she wanted to meet them and the family's spokesman said publicly that they would only meet on their terms - she would have to return to the UK and stand trial first. They certainly had the right to say 'no' to an apology, but you seem to be saying she was the one who refused to give it. Having said that, normally, this process (known as reconciliation) takes place after a conviction. It's a chance for the person who did the crime to apologise to the victim(s) face to face.

[billy sugger]

To be honest, IMO if she had any sense of guilt/shame etc, she would not have buggered off back to the USA, then claiming diplomatic immunity, as up to the pont of fleeing she was just a housewife, not a intelligence officer, which is a rather convenient way to avoid prosecution. If, as she stated at the time it was a dreadful mistake, why not stay and accept the outcome? I'm wholeheartedly with the Dun family on this, and hope they get the justice they deserve, not just compensation 

 

[Bee M. Dubya]

7 minutes ago, billy sugger said:

To be honest, IMO if she had any sense of guilt/shame etc, she would not have buggered off back to the USA, then claiming diplomatic immunity, as up to the pont of fleeing she was just a housewife, not a intelligence officer, which is a rather convenient way to avoid prosecution. If, as she stated at the time it was a dreadful mistake, why not stay and accept the outcome? I'm wholeheartedly with the Dun family on this, and hope they get the justice they deserve, not just compensation 

 

 

We don't know if she was totally on board with leaving. When you're on a foreign posting and your government says 'go', you go. Her government claimed DI for her and they chose to pull the family out for 'security reasons' and we don't know what those are. As for justice for the family, there are many different versions of what 'justice' looks like. If they offer to reduce the charge (which the CPS has the power to do), she pleads guilty and gets a suspended sentence or community service, then I think the family might be satisfied, but a lot of people wouldn't.

[MikeHorton]

1 hour ago, Bee M. Dubya said:

She was at the White House, and they refused to meet her there, and her lawyers issued statements saying she wanted to meet them and the family's spokesman said publicly that they would only meet on their terms - she would have to return to the UK and stand trial first. They certainly had the right to say 'no' to an apology, but you seem to be saying she was the one who refused to give it. Having said that, normally, this process (known as reconciliation) takes place after a conviction. It's a chance for the person who did the crime to apologise to the victim(s) face to face.

I think the refusal stems from her trying to avoid the justice system. We allegedly stand shoulder to shoulder with Uncle Sam, share the same values and often extradite our citizens to them to face justice. I guess you can see why there was no meeting, its a toothless tiger without the justice first.