Sat Nav

[Davidtav]

So I normally use a Beeline. Which is great. But I’ve bought a new bike with thoughts of European touring. And I thought I could do with using a proper Sat Nav. Expensive for bike specific versions. Thinking that it’s a pity I couldn’t just use the basic one plugged in the car. Which has all maps for Western Europe installed I googled and discovered I could buy a waterproof case for my Sat nav with handlebar mount for not a lot. Made in China of course. I haven’t actually tried riding with this setup yet. But I fitted it and can’t see any problem. Maybe the bike will shake it to bits. We will see. 

[husoi]

Been using my Garmin zumo and don't regret a bit.

This after several failures while using the phone as satnav.

[Davidtav]

12 minutes ago, husoi said:

Been using my Garmin zumo and don't regret a bit.

This after several failures while using the phone as satnav.

Mine is a Garmin Nuvi. Which isn’t waterproof. It must be almost ten years old. But has lifetime map updates. And so mapping is current. I won’t be upset if this fails. But honestly I think it will be fine. 

[Gerontious]

There’s really no need to buy the latest and greatest. Garmin support their products for years only dropping them when they become obsolete and that’s usually because they run out of storage space. I had a 660 from 2009. It still works just fine. Still updatable. Gave it to one of my friends so it continues to be used.

personally I wouldn’t recommend an early TomTom with the same enthusiasm, as they drop support for them. Also early ones weren’t built too well. The copper contacts for power were kinda printed on and vibrations could wear these away. Not good.

 

if you change your mind and want a bike specific sat nav. And they do have many distinct advantages. And you look on eBay, for example - look for any with LM in the description - it may be written as Lifetime Maps too.

 

nowadays I reckon a sat nav is extremely handy for touring in Europe in conjunction with a phone, with data roaming. Then you’re basically fully covered. Sat nav’s aren’t always perfect. I learnt this year that sometimes they mess up. Though it wasn’t actually the units fault or its mapping/routing - it was 3rd party software that Garmin includes.

 

i was running out of fuel and the poi software was wrong about the nearest fuel stop. So I looked at my phone - google maps - found one that was nearby and the Zumo guided me there. Sorted. No drama.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Gerontious

[JRH]

18 hours ago, Davidtav said:

So I normally use a Beeline. Which is great. But I’ve bought a new bike with thoughts of European touring. And I thought I could do with using a proper Sat Nav. Expensive for bike specific versions. Thinking that it’s a pity I couldn’t just use the basic one plugged in the car. Which has all maps for Western Europe installed I googled and discovered I could buy a waterproof case for my Sat nav with handlebar mount for not a lot. Made in China of course. I haven’t actually tried riding with this setup yet. But I fitted it and can’t see any problem. Maybe the bike will shake it to bits. We will see. 

Possibly the touch screen will not work through the weatherproof front panel while wearing gloves. 
Other than that should be ok. 

[Joe85]

I’ve been touring in Europe several times with just the phone with absolutely zero issues.

 

Hundreds on a dedicated satnav just seems unnecessary to me.

[Gerontious]

52 minutes ago, Joe85 said:

I’ve been touring in Europe several times with just the phone with absolutely zero issues.

 

Hundreds on a dedicated satnav just seems unnecessary to me.

 

This is probably the single most common thing people say. especially on the touring groups.

I had a Zumo long before I had a smart phone and Ive kept with it.

The idea of placing a high value phone in a mount on the bike fills me with dread. especially as I bought it outright. I would particularly worry about the camera - obviously - I bought the phone mostly because of the camera.

There are other reasons. most notably is the idea of having all my eggs in one basket. I lose the phone - because (for whatever reason) it flies off.. or breaks. That would be a major disaster. affecting my work-life most of all. I would have to replace it immediately. regardless of whether that's financially convenient or not.

 

I said this once and the suggestion from someone was to buy a second phone and use that as a sat nav.. I thought to myself: "is that your best idea?"

 

No, my phone is either in my inside jacket pocket. or its in the handlebar bag being charged.

 

A high value phone or a low value satnav that will probably last me more than 10 years. if it bricks and cash is tight then I can pick up a second hand one for much less.  no big deal. (and no rush either)

 

But we are all different with different priorities. if you are happy to use your phone. or a phone. then that's fine, you are definitely not unusual in that decision. in fact, its possibly the majority decision these days. its a comparatively small market with just two 'known' manufacturers.

 

I do see people joining the zumo group I'm in and they more often than not say that they used to use their phone. that's very common. (almost everyone has a smart phone) and it was great.. until something happened.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Gerontious

[bonio]

Using a phone for navigation has a few issues

• Vibrations can kill the camera.
  I've heard of this happening on iphones, probably happens on others too. Some companies such as Quadlock and UltimateAddOns make cases that damp the vibrations and are safe for your phone. After 1000s of miles using an UltimateAddOns case with my cheapo Samsung, I've had no issues with the camera.
• The phone can overheat and shut off.
  A combination of high summer temperatures, the heavy processing required to do navigation, shutting the phone away in an airless case that heats up an oven, mean that this can happen. It's happened to me a couple of times on hot afternoons. Never been a problem, as I've been riding with others who have proper sat navs.
• No data at the bottom of your valley.
  Relying on data being available everywhere might leave you riding around looking for the nearest signal But some nav apps, such as MRA and I think google maps, allow you to download maps so they're always available.
• No dedicated hard buttons.
  It's not that easy to poke around at a phone screen when you're stopped at a red light, even if you have magic conductive gloves. A few hard buttons you can activate easily with gloves might help you out.
• It's not easy to use the phone.
  When the phone's all cooped up in its case, it's one faff to many to get it out just to take some pics or whatever you do with your phone. It tends to stay there until there's a proper lunch or coffee stop.

It's up to you whether these are deal-breakers or not. I've gone the phone route because I got fed up with Garmin and BaseCamp and longed for something that was just a bit simpler to use. Ended up with MRA on the phone, and been happily using it for a couple of years now. Not thinking of going back to sat navs.

[S-Westerly]

I use TomTom with a dedicated GPS. I've got the app on my phone as well but my phone stays firmly inside a zipped up inner pocket. I don't do a lot of advanced planning of routes; I roam at random.

[Joe85]

I use the connected ride app, if you combine it with the cradle you can you the BMW wheel to control your phone too, which is pretty cool.

 

My personal experience is that BMW’s app is superior to any normal satnav app like Apple or Google Maps… until you want live traffic. Apple/Goofle maps are unbeatable for that, imo.
 

Like most satnavs, you download the map data to the phone. My favourite feature is “winding routes” setting which takes you on the most obscure route from A to B. 
 

I’m not to concerned with vibration, quad lock’s AVM solves that, to be fair.

 

I get why people may want a dedicated satnav, I’ve just never got spare cash to weigh out for one, always felt like there something more exciting to buy for the bike. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Joe85

[Bender]

 

[Yorky]

12 hours ago, Joe85 said:

My personal experience is that BMW’s app is superior to any normal satnav app like Apple or Google Maps… until you want live traffic. Apple/Goofle maps are unbeatable for that, imo.

 

Don't know whether you're IPhone or Android but I am Android and using the same app. It has just been updated this week to 5.1.1 and now shows live traffic and suggested diversions to avoid hold ups (apparently)

Edited December 1, 2023 by Yorky

[JRH]

I use a Garmin SatNav but often plan the route on MRA and then download it to the Garmin. 

[V650]

On 27/11/2023 at 16:09, Davidtav said:

So I normally use a Beeline. Which is great. But I’ve bought a new bike with thoughts of European touring. And I thought I could do with using a proper Sat Nav. Expensive for bike specific versions. Thinking that it’s a pity I couldn’t just use the basic one plugged in the car. Which has all maps for Western Europe installed I googled and discovered I could buy a waterproof case for my Sat nav with handlebar mount for not a lot. Made in China of course. I haven’t actually tried riding with this setup yet. But I fitted it and can’t see any problem. Maybe the bike will shake it to bits. We will see. 

I also have Garmin XT and use the Myroute app to send routes from the pc to the garmin 

 

I did have an old phone ( samsung J7 ) in a waterproof case mounted on the handlebars but more times than not I could not see what was on the screen with the glare from the plastic window on the cheapo waterproof case 

[Stu]

16 hours ago, JRH said:

I use a Garmin SatNav but often plan the route on MRA and then download it to the Garmin. 

 

 

I also have the MRA navigation too and I'm exploring using that on an old phone 

[Essem]

I’ve used phone for last 5 years, no issues with vibration. Have had iPhone overheat and shut down in 35+ degs in France. Have had phone get upset in pissing down rain. I also have a cheaper Android phone with no SIM card, which I sometimes fix to the bike and tether it to iPhone in my pocket. Biggest advantage of phone is real time traffic warnings. Getting off Plymouth ferry this year I followed my mate who has a zumo of a few years age, and he rode straight into a traffic jam due to accident. My phone had highlighted the 30 minute delay but I couldn’t get his attention in time. I should have let mate go but you know how it is.

[Fiddlesticks]

Yep, had the overheating thing (when stationery) and the rain screwing with the touch screen.

[S-Westerly]

My TomTom Bluetooths to my phone so gets the same traffic updates as my phone but feedsme more info as to how to avoid it. Plus its a screen I can actually see.

[rob m]

My phone stays in the tankbag, it's my lifeline should things go wrong...and it's expensive. I've had Zumos in the past but couldn't justify the cost this time around.

 

So for a cheap solution last year I bought a Garmin Nuvi car sat nav for £40.  It has lifetime European maps and live traffic through bluetooth. There's thousands out there up for grabs. Updated the maps right away.

 

Then I bought: https://www.ram-mount.co.uk/holder-for-the-garmin-nuvi-52?search=nuvi 52&sort=p.sort_order&order=ASC&limit=20

and: https://www.ram-mount.co.uk/diamond-base-with-1-inch-ball?search=diamond 1" ball&sort=p.sort_order&order=ASC&limit=20

 

So the cost was £70-ish all in.

 

Then, after looking at ATV forums and seeing what they did, I silicone sealed the screen (tutorials on youtube) and covered the speaker port with waterproof tape so the two main routes of water ingress have been dealt with. Those guys on the ATV forums have done this for years and swear by it, some even hot glue the power supply in, I haven't gone that far. I also looked online for a motorcycle icon which I now have on the sat nav, transferred it via my laptop.

 

 

 

The sat nav has latest hotel and campsite updates but to be honest I'd probably use my phone for that then enter the postcode in the sat nav. 

 

For GPX files, Basecamp won't play ball and transfer them over but MRA will, no bother. I tried this and they appear in the 'Trip Planner' app on the sat nav.

 

So for about £70 and a tiny bit of DIY I've a got a Zumo-lite. I'll pop a couple of pictures up when it's back on the bike.

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2024 by rob m

[Capt Sisko]

On 03/12/2023 at 09:47, Stu said:

 

 

I also have the MRA navigation too and I'm exploring using that on an old phone 

Another one that does the above, the Garmin and MRA seem to work well together quite well.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Capt Sisko

[bonio]

@rob m That's genius.

[Simon Davey]

After reading this last night, I had a look on eBay. 

You can get a Nuvi 58LM European lifetime maps for anything between £20-40 used. 

There's also someone selling waterproof motorcycle mounts for the Nuvi 5x models for £15

[Gerontious]

I still dont begrudge spending £260 on my Garmin XT. its expensive yes, because its a niche product. but its built to satisfy a particular purpose and withstand the conditions its subjected too without any modifications.  like any quality product. buy once - cry once. Sat navs made for cars will always be significantly cheaper as the numbers are disproportional, its always going to be cheaper to produce something in the millions than in the thousands. But there will always be certain limitations, but if these are not a concern then, why not?

[Simon Davey]

28 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

I still dont begrudge spending £260 on my Garmin XT. its expensive yes, because its a niche product. but its built to satisfy a particular purpose and withstand the conditions its subjected too without any modifications.  like any quality product. buy once - cry once. Sat navs made for cars will always be significantly cheaper as the numbers are disproportional, its always going to be cheaper to produce something in the millions than in the thousands. But there will always be certain limitations, but if these are not a concern then, why not?

 

I'm thinking "why not", but, I also have stronger thoughts about it being contained in something waterproof.

I can only imagine I would always wish I could see the screen properly under a variety of conditions.

 

How did you manage an XT for that price? I can only find them for £340

[S-Westerly]

I paid full price for my motorbike specific Tomtom. Its now about 5 years old,  updates regularly and is still 100 % reliable.  It's fully waterproof, dust proof etc. Have just transferred it on to my new bike. Still working.