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Posted

The latest report from Dft, below, provides a worrying analysis on the increasing risk of death associated with riding a motorcycle in the UK. 

 

New figures from the Department for Transport (DfT) revealed motorcyclist deaths in Britain increased by nine per cent last year.

Some 343 riders lost their lives in crashes in 2024, up from 315 during the previous 12 months, and making up 21 per cent of the total 1,633 people killed on Britain’s roads last year.

 

Whilst this is a headline figure, and doesn't break down the number of deaths into, cause of accident, road use types, age groups, bike categories, as a headline figure, it is scary, and huge cause for concern.

 

Personally, I am confused by the increase, Motorbikes have more advanced safety features than ever, ABS, Traction Control, tyre technology continues evolve, better wet grip, braking distances reduced.  Bike gear technology evolves to provide higher levels of protection.   My impression is that there is more advanced Motorbike safety training being carried out than ever before.

 

And I get that if there is an idjit riding a motorcycle, despite all the above, they would still be a idjit,  and at a high risk of  becoming part of the death statistics. 

 

I read recently that the sale of higher capacity motorbikes, over 125cc I think, have fallen sharply over recent years, whilst I understand that a 125cc motorbike can reach 65 to 85 Mph, and an accident at these speeds is likely to end in an other death statistic.

I am not aware that Motorcyclists on the roads are any more dangerous, there will always be exceptions, than in the past,   

I wonder what category of motorcyclist, motorbike, age group, type of use  etc  leads to the increase in these statistics.

 

What do you folks thinks is contributing to the increase?

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

I think all of these " features" you mention has a direct impact.  Both psychologically and physically.

 

ABS, Traction Control, Wheelie Control, Wet Mode ect have all contributed to a steady loss of essential hand eye coordination skills and general riding ability.

Psychologically, riders will tend to rely on technology to keep them safe, falsely making them feel far more secure than any situation permits.  This leads to less vigilance, forward plannng and longer reaction times.

 

Also, all these features need constant attention in some form or another, all taking the riders brain and eyes away from the road.  Even looking at the dash these days seems to involve squinting for long periods as the display is cluttered with this mode enabled, this feature on, that feature on its second setting, the satnav is demanding attention, appleplay is acting up...  Even worse is you seem to often have to look at the switchgear to see what button to press.  

 

If you can sort this in a two second gaze at the dash, you are good.  Most will take longer.   In two seconds at 60mph, you have travelled 176 feet. That is a long way to not be paying attention to your riding.

 

I may be a luddite, owning a few " vintage bikes" but my displays are simple. How fast am i going? A quick glance and eyes back on the road.  Am I approaching peak rpm? A quick glance..

 

How about petrol? A quick glance at the fuel gauge.

 

Fancy electronics and aids detract from riding in my view, not add to it.  You are not riding a motorcycle, you are driving a two wheeled car.

 

Until the brown stuff hits the fan and the four wheeled car wins every time.

 

Also, the young thugs riding pit bikes illegally on the roads, dressed in hoodies and no helmet will contribute significantly... And what of the effect of electric bicycles?

Are they, as " motorised bicycles" included in the motorcycle stats?

Edited by Tinkicker
  • Like 4
Posted

Judging by the large increase in delivery riders and my observations of their appalling  riding, maybe a drill down into that category might be in order?

This comment is obviously entirely down to my own prejudice, but doesn’t make it wrong until proven so.

  • Like 4
Posted

Putting it on the record that, should I become another motorcycling statistic, the last thing I would want is some hand-wringing politician limiting motorcycle acceleration, enforcing the wearing of airbag vests, banning filtering, or anything else, for that matter.

That being the case, I shall do my best to stay alive , to avoid mucking it up for everyone else.

 

  • Like 5
Posted
35 minutes ago, Mickly said:

Judging by the large increase in delivery riders and my observations of their appalling  riding, maybe a drill down into that category might be in order?

This comment is obviously entirely down to my own prejudice, but doesn’t make it wrong until proven so.


I too have noticed that delivery riders are an absolute menace.  How they ever managed to pass their cbt with their riding the way it is is beyond me.  They are a danger to themselves and other road users.  Not, all, I should add, but I will say that it is extremely rare for me to spot a delivery rider actually riding safely.  

It would be very interesting to see a breakdown of bike types involved, whether other vehicles were involved, whether they were in town or countryside, age and license status of those involved and perhaps even a breakdown on whether they are people who have come to this country from overseas and as such may be unfamiliar with the rules on our roads.

The more data we have, the better in my opinion.  Just having a raw number doesn't take in to account any of the variables and as such unless we know how and why there is an increase, we won't know how to whether things need to change.

Nobody said motorcycling was safe, and I think each of us knows when we put our helmet on and go out and play in traffic, we are taking some degree of risk which we all manage in our own ways.  But that is part of the fun of riding.

And finally, in echoing Fiddlesticks, I too shall endeavour to remain very much alive and avoid becoming a statistic to be used against the rest of you fine people.  If I ever do become a statistic, and it was my fault, hold me up as an example of how not to do something.  If I ever become a statistic and it wasn't my fault, I hope that each and every one of you will hunt down whoever was responsible and make them pay for my untimely demise by tutting at them, shaking your head, and telling them that you aren't angry, you are disappointed.

 

  • Like 3
Posted

I'm with Mickley on this. There's been a huge increase in small capacity bikes being ridden by delivery riders many of whom seem to have no idea about traffic rules etc etc. Ride like maniacs and if they have an off in heavy urban traffic which is their main operating area it's likely to have serious consequences. I'd be interested to know what percentage of the casualties fall into that group. Probably politically incorrect to ask.

  • Like 2
Posted

I agree with you all about the bad riding of a certain group of individuals. But talking about all the information on modern bikes. This is one massive problem in cars. When you have to access  a screen to look at a setting on a screen to change the fan or temperature control. It's just crazy.

The amount of people looking at stuff, and not the road is going up every year. And that's without phones.

  • Like 5
Posted

Plenty of motorcyclists have huge amounts of tech on their bikes these days. I often wonder how distracting that is. I was on the Eurotunnel recently and a guy was talking into his phone on a stick, probably a YouTuber. His bike was equipped with so much tech it’s a wonder he could keep his eyes on the road.

 

Also, I wonder how many of those statistics are middle aged riders who have just started motorcycling or returning after a long break. 

  • Like 3
Posted

A quick google to see if there is any more data is interesting. 66% of the fatalities were on rural not urban roads and 3-39 year olds had the highest rate of fatalities. That would suggest it is not the delivery drivers skewing the numbers.

I think there may be an issue with the more tech on bikes but not in the way you might think. ABS, traction control and all the other bells and whistles make it easier to ride close to the limit of the bike and potentially beyond your limit. On a car that will have a similar effect but you have more protection when things go wrong like pre-tensioners, airbags etc. Bikes are lacking that aspect. So are bikers riding past their limit and the consequences are just higher/less mitigated?

Now it didn't give numbers but it did say most fatalities involved collision with a car. Are bikers moving quicker, past their limit at the same time as drivers have more to distract them?

 

  • Like 3
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Driving a car these days I sometimes think I need a copilot just to operate all the gizmos.

There are some blindingly  bright large display screens on modern cars.  That don't seem to be dimmable.

 

I am guessing on the bridge all the big screens even dimmed  add notably to the general glare. 

 

When you can be sat behind a car and the screen glare is lighting the interior you have to affect what they can see.

 

Even my near 20 year old Volvo has some ridiculously small buttons that you have to look for.

 

Modern headlights with stupidly bright lights so your eyes are constantly readjusting.  With auto dim that happens 0.5 of a second to late.

 

Then there are the gizmos all making EVERYONE feel more secure isolated from the road and surroundings. So not concentrating on the right things.

 

Not forgetting road condition pot holes and generally bigger cars 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.624cf31711e61267b420f2d0a5f77023.jpegimage.jpeg.5fa17725ea7bf8b50c607ee70b23ee2a.jpeg

 

And bikes heavier and less agile.

image.jpeg.5fe2298a556bd77dc31c8b6ab3d9901d.jpegimage.jpeg.2009eb1f0b050ac883eca62478800a8c.jpeg

 

Lots of little (or not so little) things combined. 

 

I would like to see if the statistics for accidents in cars (not fatal, ones modern cars are incredibly safe) have increased in a similar proportion.

Edited by onesea
  • Like 1
Posted

People are the problem not technology, both sides of the fence, driving and riding standards are in decline and the f**k you mentality is on the increase, it's a bad mix.

 

Not bike related but there was a death up here few days ago, small van decided to overtake on a blind bend, unfortunately for him a wagon was coming the other way, the engine of the van was embedded in the rear doors of the van, it takes no imagination to guess what condition the driver was in.

 

Wagon driver was fine apart from shock, but it could have been absolutely anything or anyone coming the other way, only saving grace is he only killed himself.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 3
Posted
8 minutes ago, Bender said:

People are the problem not technology, both sides of the fence, driving and riding standards are in decline and the f**k you mentality is on the increase, it's a bad mix.

 

Not bike related but there was a death up here few days ago, small van decided to overtake on a blind bend, unfortunately for him a wagon was coming the other way, the engine of the van was embedded in the rear doors of the van, it takes no imagination to guess what condition the driver was in.

 

Wagon driver was fine apart from shock, but it could have been absolutely anything or anyone coming the other way, only saving grace is he only killed himself.

 

I do think there is a general bad attitude with some bikers. I watched a lot of UK bikers videos on youtube showing them with idiot drivers and I would say over 90% of the riders were either the main problem or certainly contributed significantly to the issue. We all seem to be super impatient and entitled to do our own thing these days which is fine but the stakes are a bit higher when you are on a bike.

 

  • Like 2
Posted
2 hours ago, onesea said:

There are some blindingly  bright large display screens on modern cars.  That don't seem to be dimmable.

I've had cars that you've been able to turn the dashboard lights right down and some turn them all off, and it does make a difference to your night vision and remove distractions. Modern ones, you can't, and even the few that are dimmable, it's just the 'dials'. All the other plethora of other buttons are still very bright.

Posted
15 hours ago, Bender said:

People are the problem not technology, both sides of the fence, driving and riding standards are in decline and the f**k you mentality is on the increase, it's a bad mix.

 

Absolutely agree 100% :-( 

  • Like 3
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, bud said:

I agree with you all about the bad riding of a certain group of individuals. But talking about all the information on modern bikes. This is one massive problem in cars. When you have to access  a screen to look at a setting on a screen to change the fan or temperature control. It's just crazy.

The amount of people looking at stuff, and not the road is going up every year. And that's without phones.

 

 

Absolutely correct.  It is ridiculous.  The Construction and Use Regs forbid a screen in view of the driver that can play videos while the car is moving.

 

However it does permit these " information screens".  Watching a movie while driving is stupid but optional.  However the manufacturers are fitting ever bigger screens that demand your attention.  Interaction with them is still optional, but extremely compelling.  Who wants to stop the vehicle to be able to change from a radio station to music on a pen drive?

 

My PoS 2022 honda civic has such a screen.  Full of unwanted " features" all accessed through the damnable screen.  Climate control temp ok, accessible through a couple knobs under the screen.  Turn the fan speed up or down? Nope, several screen menus to go through.  Want to do it without taking your hands from the wheel?  Fine, you are now peering at two spokes on the steering wheel as well as the screen....

 

What idiot dreams these things up?

 

The owners manual is pretty much the size and thickness of an old style mail order catalogue and takes up 90% of the space in the glovebox.

 

Impossible to buy a good car these days.  Give me my old Capri 2.0S any day.  A far better car than this modern garbage... And repairable.

Edited by Tinkicker
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted

Is it bikers causing the increase, or other road users? Cars are getting faster and heavier and that increases impact forces at the time of an accident, which increases the chances of fatality. 

  • Like 3
Posted

I have noticed an increase in cars overtaking on blind bends up here in this part of Scotland. Absolute madness. Seems to be predominantly huge Audis and BMWs. It is the thing which scares me the most when I’m on my bike these days. That I will go around a bend and find an Audi Q7 heading straight for me. 
I think folks have touched on the reasons for this in the previous comments. Cars these days have so much technology that maybe drivers feel they are invulnerable. Also I rarely see any marked police cars. Little visible deterrent. 

  • Like 2
Posted

Personally I take those crude statics with a pinch of salt as to what is suggested, be seen as biased into saying its the motorcyclist fault when they could have been a secondary part of the accident not directly at fault.

car pulls out on, car over takes another vehicle so head on with bike…two vehicles have a an accident of their own which the biker couldn’t of avoided.

dont get me wrong it’s not great but in the bigger picture it’s still a very small percentage of the larger number and if you looked in other statistics of other things your probably find another one which you think wouldn’t be such an issue yet its percentage is greater/higher risk. 

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