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Bought a Shoei Neotec flip-up today. First lid for me that's not been full face.


Seems to be a lot of conflicting info online regarding whether it's legal to ride open face or not. I believe it's not legal, but can't find anyone who's ever been pulled and done for riding open face in town. Regardless, I've got mine now and was wondering if anyone else has, and if you ride with the flip face open or closed? I'll only ever ride in the city with it open so hardly ever likely to be much over 30mph, so wind resistance isn't an issue.


I tried all of the other main brand offerings and the Shoei XL size was the only one that actually fits well. My full face Arai is great but I wanted something cooler for the commute through the city during the summer months.


What's your experience, pros and cons..?

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Its perfectly fine to use my helmet with the flip up... Because it can be locked in place. This means it has dual EC homologation as both a full-face helmet with the flip-up closed and as a 'jet' helmet with the flip-up raised. (And locked)


Unlike some flips... Which do not lock.. And so could drop and the chin part block your view... Say if you went over a bump or a road hump.


I usually save riding with the flip up... For more sedate (bimble mode) riding and stop/start in high temperatures, using the drop down sun shade as protection. Not ideal... But very comfortable. Pick up the pace and I close the helmet, drop the flip and lock it shut. And that's really because of insects... I don't want some huge bug hitting my face at speed.


I would never wear the helmet with the flip up while riding at speeds over 30mph... When opening the visor a little instead has much the same effect.

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How people,ride with he flip up I'll never know. So bloody heavy they must have really strong neck muscles and the lid must act as a sail and catch any wind.


Flip front are handy for town riding, getting petrol, shops etc as you can just flip up and not have to remove the helmet but I've had enough of the weight penalty and ordered a full face.

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Often ride at slower speeds with my Neotec flipped up. It's not legal because it's not been tested by Shoei with the face open, but I very much doubt your average copper is going to know that. A bike cop maybe as he has a personal interest in helmets and there's a good chance he's wearing a Neotec as his job lid, but how often do you see one of them. Shoei won't test them because they don't believe it's a safe thing to be doing, but other manufacturers do test their flip up lids to ensure they meet the same standards as an open face and they can be ridden legally while open.

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I love my Caberg flip up but only ride with it up (and locked) in slow traffic - I live in the city centre. I've never noticed any issue re. weight but then the front sits really high when open so the weight isn't hanging out front.


Only thing I need to remember is to duck when I'm going in and out of the garage as it adds a few extra inches to my height.

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As long as it has been approved as an open and full face it should be OK one of the requirements is that you can lock it open, Actually lock it not just that it stays open usually this means a switch. As someone stated most Bobbies would probably not know this you I expect 100% of bike police do.


I have a Nolan which is approved but I do not generally ride with it open. Sometime when it foggy out but that's about it.

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here is an example label from an approved helmet.. one that can be worn 'both ways' when riding.


the code to look for is P-J (or J-P)

 

dual-homologated-flip-up-helmet-label-300x225.jpg.8371e75d21d07df599ef5e8b82df6bb9.jpg

 

contrast that label with one from a helmet thats approved only as a 'full face'. it will only have the letter P.

 

ece-22.05-crash-helmet-label.jpg.95cd75713895b9d073f001f874c854bd.jpg

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Thanks for the feedback.

It's clearly not 'ride legal' in open mode, in fact there's a big bloody disclaimer on the inside of the chin strap saying DO NOT ride in open face mode.


I was sure it wasn't ride legal when I bought it but that didn't stop me buying. The lid is the best fitting I've tried and riding open face in town will still be my default when the conditions allow. I wear glasses so the inevitable bug strikes are not a great concern at 30mph anyway.

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I ride fip up a lot, but got a Shark Evoline, so no issues with a big flap waving about above my head. The flip goes down as soon as my speed goes over 40 mph.


http://www.fowlers.co.uk/shop/content/images/thumbs/0008202_shark-evoline-s3-wkr.jpeg

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My skorpion is flip front, but I don't ride with it up. Even if it were rated as a jet helmet I wouldn't, having seen the result of someone getting knocked off with their helmet flipped up.. Don't think I can afford the dentist's bill.. (Or more likely in my case the rhinoplasty!) :lol:

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Good knowledge there, as always TC1474!


Personally, I never ride with my Neotec flipped up. Every training course that I've ever been on are always clear and insistent that they're lowered and locked. We spend so much on safety gear so my thinking is use it in its most effective form. I flip up when I'm off the bike or filling up.

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Often ride at slower speeds with my Neotec flipped up. It's not legal because it's not been tested by Shoei with the face open,.

 

Sorry, I am not intending to have a go at anyone, but....Here we go again... :roll: Where does it say that it not legal? There never has been a regulation making the riding of a flip front helmet in the up position illegal.


All the law states under the Motorcycles Protective Headwear Regulations 1998


All motorcycle safety helmets worn while riding on roads in the UK must meet one of the following regulations:


British Standard BS 6658:1985 and carry the BSI Kitemark.


UNECE Regulation 22.05.


A European Economic Area member standard offering at least the same safety and protection as BS 6658:1985. It must also carry a mark equivalent to the BSI Kitemark. This covers SNELL, DOT and other overseas accreditation



Protective Headgear' means a helmet which;

(a) either;


(i) Bears a marking applied by its manufacturer indicating compliance with the specifications contained in one of the British Standards (whether or not as modified by any amendment) mentioned in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; or


(ii) Is of a type manufactured for use by persons on motor cycles which by virtue of its shape, material and construction could reasonably be expected to afford to the wearer a degree of protection from accidental injury similar to or greater than that provided by a helmet of a type prescribed by regulation 5;


(b) If worn with a chin cup attached to or held in position by a strap, is provided with an additional strap (to be fastened under the wearer's jaw) for securing the helmet to the head; and


© Is securely fastened to the head by means of straps provided for that purpose; and

'strap' includes any fastening device.


So wearing the flip in the up position is perfectly legal and there have been no ammendments made to the regulations.


Under the old BS6658-85, the style of helmet was tested only with the flip front down, and so it received its accreditation for having it in the down position, but that is very different to riding with it in the up position.


But, I can go one stage further than this. You are right, I was doing advisory work for Shoei in Japan when they first released the flip style helmet. They could not at the time (about 1998 or thereabouts) get it through BS6658-85 because the visor section was about 0.001mm out on the specific specs to get it approved.


And so, it was (and I believe is still) sold as an open faced helmet and the chin bar/front flip is sold as an accessory which is not subject to the BS6658-85 approval. Now in fairness under EC22/05 this problem has properly been addressed, but it still goes back to the point that nothing in the regulations makes it illegal to ride with the flip in the up position.


From an accident point of view, in the event of a crash where the rider sustained a facial injury, there would be no deduction of any contributory negligence because the law was being complied with. Bear in mind that even someone who wears a helmet unfastened or no helmet at all might only get hit up to a maximum of 25% contrib, but that is a maximum depnding on the circumstances.


I would finish by saying that is anyone can quote act, section and/or regulation that makes it illegal, I am very happy to be corrected and apologise.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1807/regulation/1/made

 

Cannabis is illegal, but I'm sure I can get you some if it will help.


The supplier advised me it did not meet the BS / ECE standard with the flip front up. It is my understanding that the Shoei Neotec is not sold as an open face. The Multitec may have been, I don't know.


If you're telling me that doesn't make it illegal great, I don't have to worry about it anymore, but one or two lines of text would have done the job, and you don't need to come over so strong that you feel the need to offer to apologise at the end of the post.

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Often ride at slower speeds with my Neotec flipped up. It's not legal because it's not been tested by Shoei with the face open,.

 

Sorry, I am not intending to have a go at anyone, but....Here we go again... :roll: Where does it say that it not legal? There never has been a regulation making the riding of a flip front helmet in the up position illegal.


All the law states under the Motorcycles Protective Headwear Regulations 1998


All motorcycle safety helmets worn while riding on roads in the UK must meet one of the following regulations:


British Standard BS 6658:1985 and carry the BSI Kitemark.


UNECE Regulation 22.05.


A European Economic Area member standard offering at least the same safety and protection as BS 6658:1985. It must also carry a mark equivalent to the BSI Kitemark. This covers SNELL, DOT and other overseas accreditation



Protective Headgear' means a helmet which;

(a) either;


(i) Bears a marking applied by its manufacturer indicating compliance with the specifications contained in one of the British Standards (whether or not as modified by any amendment) mentioned in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; or


(ii) Is of a type manufactured for use by persons on motor cycles which by virtue of its shape, material and construction could reasonably be expected to afford to the wearer a degree of protection from accidental injury similar to or greater than that provided by a helmet of a type prescribed by regulation 5;


(b) If worn with a chin cup attached to or held in position by a strap, is provided with an additional strap (to be fastened under the wearer's jaw) for securing the helmet to the head; and


© Is securely fastened to the head by means of straps provided for that purpose; and

'strap' includes any fastening device.


So wearing the flip in the up position is perfectly legal and there have been no ammendments made to the regulations.


Under the old BS6658-85, the style of helmet was tested only with the flip front down, and so it received its accreditation for having it in the down position, but that is very different to riding with it in the up position.


But, I can go one stage further than this. You are right, I was doing advisory work for Shoei in Japan when they first released the flip style helmet. They could not at the time (about 1998 or thereabouts) get it through BS6658-85 because the visor section was about 0.001mm out on the specific specs to get it approved.


And so, it was (and I believe is still) sold as an open faced helmet and the chin bar/front flip is sold as an accessory which is not subject to the BS6658-85 approval. Now in fairness under EC22/05 this problem has properly been addressed, but it still goes back to the point that nothing in the regulations makes it illegal to ride with the flip in the up position.


From an accident point of view, in the event of a crash where the rider sustained a facial injury, there would be no deduction of any contributory negligence because the law was being complied with. Bear in mind that even someone who wears a helmet unfastened or no helmet at all might only get hit up to a maximum of 25% contrib, but that is a maximum depnding on the circumstances.


I would finish by saying that is anyone can quote act, section and/or regulation that makes it illegal, I am very happy to be corrected and apologise.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1807/regulation/1/made

 

Cannabis is illegal, but I'm sure I can get you some if it will help.


The supplier advised me it did not meet the BS / ECE standard with the flip front up. It is my understanding that the Shoei Neotec is not sold as an open face. The Multitec may have been, I don't know.


If you're telling me that doesn't make it illegal great, I don't have to worry about it anymore, but one or two lines of text would have done the job, and you don't need to come over so strong that you feel the need to offer to apologise at the end of the post.

 


So your a drug dealer... Are you stoned now :shock:

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The fine for riding with no helmet at all is only 60 quid so I wouldn't worry about it...

But I don't like the flip fronts, full face only for me..

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The fine for riding with no helmet at all is only 60 quid so I wouldn't worry about it...

But I don't like the flip fronts, full face only for me..

I thought all the fixed penalty fines went up to £100 last year, Joe?....... :?

I had a flip front for a while......probably the most uncomfortable and heaviest lid I've owned in the past 10 years.....really didn't get on with it......donated it to Stu's mate a few years back...... :wink: :lol: :lol:

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The fine for riding with no helmet at all is only 60 quid so I wouldn't worry about it...

But I don't like the flip fronts, full face only for me..

I thought all the fixed penalty fines went up to £100 last year, Joe?....... :?

I had a flip front for a while......probably the most uncomfortable and heaviest lid I've owned in the past 10 years.....really didn't get on with it......donated it to Stu's mate a few years back...... :wink: :lol: :lol:

Yeah probably gone up, but it's just a fine, no points, or at least it was when the topgear bloke tried it to see what happened.

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I can't find any ROSPA study looking at the trauma suffered due to different helmet designs. Google returns nothing of note and it's not on the ROSPA site searching under "helmet motorcycle".


Having seen large organisations approach to policy first hand I'd venture that facts rarely impact when it comes to mythical lawsuit possibilities. I'd prefer to see evidence first hand before accepting flip helmet cause more injuries. If it is so, it makes a mockery of the Sharp ratings for a start off.


If anybody stumbles across this ROSPA study I'd be grateful of a link. :)

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Putting all the extra weight of the flipped up bit so high is certainly going to increase the forces on the riders neck as the center of gravity will be higher when flipped up - that's just basic physics.

But, it's going to depend a lot on the weight of the helmet.. cheap lidl flip fronts weigh a ton, whereas the more expensive ones will be lighter...

Helmet weight is going to be a large contributing factor in deciding if your neck snaps or not and I would guess a flip front will always be heavier than a non-flip front.

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I would guess a flip front will always be heavier than a non-flip front.

 

not always..


for example.. my own crash helmet is about mid range.. maybe at the lower end of mid range? £150 to buy now


so take my helmet.. in a size Large.. and compare its weight with yours.. again in a size Large.


mine weighs 95g less.


i dont think that means very much... to be honest. as we are not comparing like for like. the design of a standard flip helmet is completely different to a full face. also one Large might be very different to another Large.


but.. it still demonstrates that a flip helmet need not be heavy.. though some are. the older helmet my own replaced weighed 173g more.. and surely this is what we expect as time goes by: improvements.. helmets become lighter and perhaps safer. so my current helmet is a 5 star from Sharp.. the previous one - 4 stars.


fwiw the lightest non carbon flip is the Schuberth C3 - Size L weighs 1550g that is 83g less than my own helmet and 177g less than the GT-Air in a size L. But it does cost about £340

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Having seen 24 hours in A & E where someone hit a car in an open faced helmet, I'd only ever use full face. Multiple jaw fractures aren't my thing.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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