Triumph Trophy Engine Strip

[Mickly]

6 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

The other thing to mention is that are the bolts stretch bolts? If so then you'll need new ones when re-assembling. They are one use only. That's particularly so with the bolts used these days when the final tightening is by degrees rather than torque.

I am aware of this & have new bolts … not cheap!!

[Mickly]

The liners are out & cleaned up again along with their seats.

I thought I would test fit the head without the liners & gasket to ensure it sits flush & guess what??

Correct - it doesn’t

My suspicion is that I’ve fitted one or more of the dowels on the piss !!

To be continued ….

[Mickly]

Right, back on track.

 

Managed to get the dowels sorted & the cyl head sitting flat ( without the liners or gasket in place )
Good job I removed the head as I realised that I’d omitted to fit this:

fixed cam chain guide .. whoops.

Smaller beads of sealant added to the liners & head refitted.

The gaps either side of the head are now satisfactory with no way of squeezing the smallest of feeler gauges in.

 

Now to fit the cam shafts.

[Mickly]

T.14 mark on the Ignition rotor aligned with the centre of the pick up coil.

 

Cam shafts placed with cam chain over them & arrows on the sprockets pointing inwards

 

Cam shims and journals oiled, Cam caps oiled, fixings oiled & hand tightened to just nipped up then torqued up to 10 N/M in a cross cross pattern - this is not a lot & I could have easily over tightened by hand.

I believe @fastbob has previously stated that this is a critical time to use a torque wrench.

Chain tensioner to be fitted … @onesea said the spring should be replaced as it’s a weak point - Spec says it should be 73.5mm long.

I resisted the urge to stretch it

So new spring to be ordered - thus ends play until it arrives.

[billy sugger]

56 minutes ago, Mickly said:

T.14 mark on the Ignition rotor aligned with the centre of the pick up coil.

 

Cam shafts placed with cam chain over them & arrows on the sprockets pointing inwards

 

Cam shims and journals oiled, Cam caps oiled, fixings oiled & hand tightened to just nipped up then torqued up to 10 N/M in a cross cross pattern - this is not a lot & I could have easily over tightened by hand.

I believe @fastbob has previously stated that this is a critical time to use a torque wrench.

Chain tensioner to be fitted … @onesea said the spring should be replaced as it’s a weak point - Spec says it should be 73.5mm long.

I resisted the urge to stretch it

So new spring to be ordered - thus ends play until it arrives.

Can't you use some kind of upgraded spring, like you can with clutches? 

[onesea]

1 hour ago, billy sugger said:

Can't you use some kind of upgraded spring, like you can with clutches? 

Hopefully he’s ordered from sprint parts they are said to be the best, by the FB group gods.

https://www.triumphparts.co.uk/product/cam-chain-tensioner-spring/

 

PS mine was not to different when I changed it. When built you can just put them in and out but rebuilding like you are I would wait…

[Mickly]

52 minutes ago, onesea said:

Hopefully he’s ordered from sprint parts they are said to be the best, by the FB group gods.

https://www.triumphparts.co.uk/product/cam-chain-tensioner-spring/

 

PS mine was not to different when I changed it. When built you can just put them in and out but rebuilding like you are I would wait…

Yep, Sprint Manufacturing

[Mickly]

2 hours ago, billy sugger said:

Can't you use some kind of upgraded spring, like you can with clutches? 

Maybe, but I wouldn’t want to put any extra stress on the cam chain.

[fastbob]

6 hours ago, Mickly said:

T.14 mark on the Ignition rotor aligned with the centre of the pick up coil.

 

Cam shafts placed with cam chain over them & arrows on the sprockets pointing inwards

 

Cam shims and journals oiled, Cam caps oiled, fixings oiled & hand tightened to just nipped up then torqued up to 10 N/M in a cross cross pattern - this is not a lot & I could have easily over tightened by hand.

I believe @fastbob has previously stated that this is a critical time to use a torque wrench.

Chain tensioner to be fitted … @onesea said the spring should be replaced as it’s a weak point - Spec says it should be 73.5mm long.

I resisted the urge to stretch it

So new spring to be ordered - thus ends play until it arrives.

That's the one ! It's amazing how inadequate the small amount of torque feels but that's the way it is . 

[fastbob]

3 hours ago, Mickly said:

Maybe, but I wouldn’t want to put any extra stress on the cam chain.

The spring will be fine . It's not there to exert a lot of force . If the spring ceases to be effective then the cam chain should have been replaced ages ago . Having said that , I did fit a manual tensioner to my last ER5 just for a laugh . 

[Mickly]

Latest update & question 

New cam chain tensioner spring fitted.

Now to check the clearance between the cam lobes & the shims.

When the company that did the machine work said they took 4thou off the top of the valve stems to compensate for the material taken off when the head was skimmed so I could use the old shims - which seemed odd, maybe I miss heard & they meant that it was to compensate for the material removed when they cut the valve seats which would make more sense….

Anyway despite what they said all the clearances had closed up so a lot of new shims were required, some of the gaps were so tight so couldn’t get a 0.04 mm gauge in, which was the smallest I’d got so a new set of feeler gauges were bought & finally all the  gaps are now within tolerance.

The question I’ve got is whether it is any use doing a compression test at this stage … if so then I’m in the sh*t (again) as there’s hardly any compression at the moment!!

[Bender]

3 hours ago, Mickly said:

Latest update & question 

New cam chain tensioner spring fitted.

Now to check the clearance between the cam lobes & the shims.

When the company that did the machine work said they took 4thou off the top of the valve stems to compensate for the material taken off when the head was skimmed so I could use the old shims - which seemed odd, maybe I miss heard & they meant that it was to compensate for the material removed when they cut the valve seats which would make more sense….

Anyway despite what they said all the clearances had closed up so a lot of new shims were required, some of the gaps were so tight so couldn’t get a 0.04 mm gauge in, which was the smallest I’d got so a new set of feeler gauges were bought & finally all the  gaps are now within tolerance.

The question I’ve got is whether it is any use doing a compression test at this stage … if so then I’m in the sh*t (again) as there’s hardly any compression at the moment!!

Not until its been run in, rings are not bedded in yet never mind valves. 

[fastbob]

Second that , let it all bed in before worrying about a compression test .

 

[Bianco2564]

What makes you concerned about no compression? 

How are you testing it?

Edited January 4, 2022 by Bianco2564

[Mickly]

14 hours ago, Bianco2564 said:

What makes you concerned about no compression? 

How are you testing it?

With a compression gauge screwed into the spark plug socket & turning it over by hand with a socket on the end of the crank … which in retrospect is a plainly stupid idea at the slow turn gives time for the air to escape past the rings, 

[Bender]

1 hour ago, Mickly said:

With a compression gauge screwed into the spark plug socket & turning it over by hand with a socket on the end of the crank … which in retrospect is a plainly stupid idea at the slow turn gives time for the air to escape past the rings, 

Yea that's not going to fly  

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

On 05/01/2022 at 11:56, Mickly said:

With a compression gauge screwed into the spark plug socket & turning it over by hand with a socket on the end of the crank … which in retrospect is a plainly stupid idea at the slow turn gives time for the air to escape past the rings, 

Not stupid, just perhaps a tad over-optimistic. Nothing wrong with being optimistic. 

[Mickly]

Hiya 
Right, it’s been a while … Engine is back in

Not with out much wrangling & use of a Pludger 

To line up the mounting holes.

As previously mentioned, the aftermarket exhaust fixings were a bit too close to the swinging arm, also the gear change mechanism was scraping the LH silencer, so I got a couple of bits stainless tube ( had them flared so didn’t need to use the expansion collets that came with the pipes & looked shit … Here they are fitted.

Now there is satisfactory clearance between to the swinging arm 

and gear change mechanism 

Just received these:

I was gonna fit the originals but having sat in the wrong spec of oil for a while, I reckon they might have been impregnated so cleaning would not be sufficient.

So after soaking in the correct spec of oil over night they are now fitted.

Clutch lever was rock hard but after a little bleeding it seems to be working fine.

Now the sun is shining & the keys to the Speedtriple are calling

 

[Mickly]

Having zipped up the casings I filled it with oil &?   
BOLLOCKS !!

Persistent drip from the sump to block gasket

[Keeper96]

On 21/05/2022 at 20:38, Mickly said:

Having zipped up the casings I filled it with oil &?   
BOLLOCKS !!

Persistent drip from the sump to block gasket

Not the end of the world dropping the sump bud. 
 

I fitted an overhauled engine from a 3rd party at work and when we started it up it was leaking from a timing case plug… only way to repair it was drop the engine again

[Mickly]

9 hours ago, Keeper96 said:

Not the end of the world dropping the sump bud. 
 

I fitted an overhauled engine from a 3rd party at work and when we started it up it was leaking from a timing case plug… only way to repair it was drop the engine again

True, just have to remove the exhaust which means removing the radiator- no real biggie but still a pain in the arse.

[onesea]

14 minutes ago, Mickly said:

True, just have to remove the exhaust which means removing the radiator- no real biggie but still a pain in the arse.

Have you tried backing off the nuts and reseating in situ?
Its a large gasket and sometimes it’s just amateur of getting the bedding right.

[Mickly]

Just now, onesea said:

Have you tried backing off the nuts and reseating in situ?
Its a large gasket and sometimes it’s just amateur of getting the bedding right.

Thanks for the advice, but the sumps already off

[Mickly]

I’m taking the sump off I noticed that the two central bolts weren’t winding out …

My heart sunk & sure enough the threads were stripped - I’d torqued them up and at the time thought that they couldn’t possibly tight enough  - luckily I didn’t do them by feel or I might have stripped the lot !!

So I purchased a 6mm Helicoil kit

However my drill was too long to fit vertically  under the bike

After a bit of head scratching I ground some flats onto the shank if the drill so it would hold in my tap wrench and slowly ream out the holes, periodically ensuring it was going in at 90* to the surface.

Note the tape around the drill indicating the depth of the hole.

A very slow process but ultimately effective 

Holes with Helicoil marked up

Now to refit the sump

[Mickly]

Sump is now fitted with a smear of gasket sealant & no sign of any stripped threads, I’ll fill it with oil tomorrow .. if @Mississippi Bullfrogwould say a prayer for me I would appreciate it