Fazer 600 2003 manifold bolts

[fastbob]

11 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

will jb weld extreme heat help plug the stud in? i was going to drain the oil anyway as it was the filter i wanted access too?

if the hole is clean etc..

I'm not taking the piss but if you've struck oil it's time to be looking for a new cylinder head . I'd grab this one with both hands and quickly . You won't find many with matching camshafts still installed . It's got 8 good exhaust studs too . Offer £180 and they might accept . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391236516953

Edited February 17, 2021 by fastbob

[jedibiker]

18 minutes ago, fastbob said:

I'm not taking the piss but if you've struck oil it's time to be looking for a new cylinder head . I'd grab this one with both hands and quickly . You won't find many with matching camshafts still installed . It's got 8 good exhaust studs too . Offer £180 and they might accept . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391236516953

Id like to think there is another option, but if it means a new head then fair play, the bike im working on is a 600 though. appreciate you finding that though

[Stu]

@jedibiker gutted you have gone through but don't panic not all is lost! 

 

I would start to think about sending it in for repair and let someone else take care of that 

 

It will need to be welded up and at the same time they can enlarge the hole weld the full lot then tap it to give you a new thread 

 

I can recommend someone who would easily do that job but you would have to get the bike to Hull 

[fastbob]

2 minutes ago, jedibiker said:

Id like to think there is another option, but if it means a new head then fair play, the bike im working on is a 600 though. appreciate you finding that though

I know , I just realized . It was such a bargain I didn't notice it was a 1000 . Sorry . 

[jedibiker]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

@jedibiker gutted you have gone through but don't panic not all is lost! 

 

I would start to think about sending it in for repair and let someone else take care of that 

 

It will need to be welded up and at the same time they can enlarge the hole weld the full lot then tap it to give you a new thread 

 

I can recommend someone who would easily do that job but you would have to get the bike to Hull 

I am thinking its best dealt with by someone who knows, I thought the tried and tested methods would be ok, but it got the better of me. I know a guy local and a garage a few miles away who collect. Ive no way to get it to hull i dont think, but do you know what he would charge? in case the bike will fit in my bros van

[fastbob]

3 minutes ago, fastbob said:

I know , I just realized . It was such a bargain I didn't notice it was a 1000 . Sorry . 

There's this one but I would want a lot more information and pictures before buying . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133426632168

[Stu]

Just now, jedibiker said:

I am thinking its best dealt with by someone who knows, I thought the tried and tested methods would be ok, but it got the better of me. I know a guy local and a garage a few miles away who collect. Ive no way to get it to hull i dont think, but do you know what he would charge? in case the bike will fit in my bros van

 

Honestly I don't know what he would charge to be honest 

 

I have sent you a link via pm anyway so might be worth just giving him a ring 

 

These things are sent to try us and sometimes it goes tits up! I have been there many times 

[jedibiker]

5 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

Honestly I don't know what he would charge to be honest 

 

I have sent you a link via pm anyway so might be worth just giving him a ring 

 

These things are sent to try us and sometimes it goes tits up! I have been there many times 

thankyou.

[jedibiker]

8 minutes ago, fastbob said:

There's this one but I would want a lot more information and pictures before buying . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133426632168

cheers

[James in Brum]

Just want to say kudos for trying and methodically working your way through. 
I have benefited from the help and advice of the gang on here and despite having the practical skills of a sea anemone have had some luck in my repairs. 
watch out for my ‘help I am trying to repair it and I am breaking it thread at the weekend’.

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, fastbob said:

There's this one but I would want a lot more information and pictures before buying . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133426632168

 

But the question is 

 

Whats the bolts like on that? will he be back to square one 

[fastbob]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

But the question is 

 

Whats the bolts like on that? will he be back to square one 

Which is exactly why I suggested that he requested much more information and more photos . 

[Stu]

1 minute ago, fastbob said:

Which is exactly why I suggested that he requested much more information and more photos . 

 

Yeah but some people can sell ice to eskimos so talking a good talk about a cylinder head is easy! I would want to see it in the flesh 

[fastbob]

35 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

Yeah but some people can sell ice to eskimos so talking a good talk about a cylinder head is easy! I would want to see it in the flesh 

And I would buy with confidence in the knowledge that I am protected up to the hilt . 

[fastbob]

Glad that's settled . Right , I'm off to the shed to do some final fettling on the Triumph. 

[Mr Fro]

Before anyone goes getting over excited, what exactly are you seeing?

 

Is it one of the top or bottom row that's got oil coming out of it?

 

I can't find any good pictures of the head layout but from what I've found, the studs back on to the rocker box i.e. not galleries. If that's the case and you've broken through then I wouldn't be majorly worried.

 

A bit like Stu said, the hole could be bored to 8 - 10 mm, sleeved and re-tapped for the stud. I would make the sleeve an interference fit, pop it in cold (CO2 or nitrogen cold) and peen it over to make doubly sure it didn't move. Welding cast can be a problematic and I don't think there's a definite need for it.

 

You might even find that drilling the rest of the bolt out, re-tapping and bunging a new stud in will be fine.

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, Mr Fro said:

You might even find that drilling the rest of the bolt out, re-tapping and bunging a new stud in will be fine.

 

I was also thinking this at least it would be lubed to come out in the future  

 

On a serious note as long as the leak has stopped there should be no issue as it wouldn't interfere with oil flow 

[oldgrump]

Hi @jedibiker, as both @Stu and @Mr Fro have said, depending on which one you have broken though on, you would probably get away with re-tapping and putting a new stud in, again like @Mr Fro said

not sure of the oil galleries on the Fazer head.

[jedibiker]

11 hours ago, Mr Fro said:

Before anyone goes getting over excited, what exactly are you seeing?

 

Is it one of the top or bottom row that's got oil coming out of it?

 

I can't find any good pictures of the head layout but from what I've found, the studs back on to the rocker box i.e. not galleries. If that's the case and you've broken through then I wouldn't be majorly worried.

 

A bit like Stu said, the hole could be bored to 8 - 10 mm, sleeved and re-tapped for the stud. I would make the sleeve an interference fit, pop it in cold (CO2 or nitrogen cold) and peen it over to make doubly sure it didn't move. Welding cast can be a problematic and I don't think there's a definite need for it.

 

You might even find that drilling the rest of the bolt out, re-tapping and bunging a new stud in will be fine.

Its far left lower stud. the oil isnt coming out fast, ive plugged a 6mm bolt in 1 turn as stud thread is still sat there. This pic is before I drilled too far

[Bender]

As above, tap it put a stud in, you could stick loctite 567 on thread, it's not coming out again.

 

Swarf in the oil will be biggest risk.

[jedibiker]

40 minutes ago, Bender said:

As above, tap it put a stud in, you could stick loctite 567 on thread, it's not coming out again.

 

Swarf in the oil will be biggest risk.

I agree, will try to hoover out as I go, cant hurt.

[fastbob]

Going back to the beginning . What actually prevented the removal of the oil filter ? Did you unscrew it as far as possible only to find that it hit the exhaust down pipe ? I'm just curious because in the original photos it looks as if it might still be removable . The 147 filter is a particularly short and stubby design to accommodate the oil cooler take off fitting that looks like a designers afterthought to my cynical eyes . 

Edited February 18, 2021 by fastbob

[jedibiker]

3 minutes ago, fastbob said:

Going back to the beginning . What actually prevented the removal of the oil filter ? Did you unscrew it as far as possible only to find that it hit the exhaust down pipe ? I'm just curious because in the original photos it looks as if it might still be removable . The 147 filter is a particularly short and stubby design to accommodate the oil cooler take off fitting that looks like a designers afterthought to my cynical eyes . 

I tried to see if the new filter would get in, and there was no way. The downpipes seem to be aftermarket and are closer to the filter than the normal pipes. I did try all angles and ways, and if the new one couldnt get in, there was no way to get the old out.

[fastbob]

1 minute ago, jedibiker said:

I tried to see if the new filter would get in, and there was no way. The downpipes seem to be aftermarket and are closer to the filter than the normal pipes. I did try all angles and ways, and if the new one couldnt get in, there was no way to get the old out.

Fair enough , curiosity satisfied . 

[WD40]

On 17/02/2021 at 17:05, jedibiker said:

Drilled too far, even left handed bits just took more width off the stud, extractors still wont budge. so went with a 5mm bit and careful but went too far and a little oil is seeping now. f#cking gutted to be honest. Im baffled how tough these studs are to remove. Even heated and applied plusgas. maybe its not hot enough. god knows but i think il ring someone and accept im useless.

I think you've drilled into a passage that one of the head studs goes through. Have a look at the pictures

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Head-Cylinder-Yamaha-FZS-FZ6-600-Fazer-J501E/174640649186?hash=item28a964d3e2:g:tpEAAOSw8OteLwIY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cylinder-Head-Yamaha-Fazer-600-/133426632071?nma=true&si=c9VRyzGVUBALtJJ3QXpqvST0%2F1k%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

The fazer has long studs that thread into the crankcase.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-1998-2000-Engine-Crankcases-Crank-Cases-J501E-014202/333857330872?hash=item4dbb7296b8:g:MEUAAOSw~DNgAE9q

 

Nuts hold the head to the cylinders. The nuts that hold the head are recessed into the camshaft journals. I think the oil you're seeing is what has collected around those nuts. If you can seal the exhaust stud threads and stop the oil coming past the threads I think you will be fine.

 

 

Your best chance of salvaging the head is probably to take the head off and bring it to an engineering workshop and they will try with getting them out with a welder or just drill them out.