People who start out on 1000cc superbikes

[Geoff Wilson]

Do people actually start out on 1000cc superbikes?

 

I’m a joiner and I was talking to a guy earlier today and I mentioned that I want to get my full bike license and get something like a Suzuki Bandit 600cc and he told me that his brother rode dirt bikes when he was younger and a 250cc when he was in his early 20s when people could ride a 250cc on L plates and he recently passed his test and bought a Suzuki GSXR1000. 

 

I understand that there is a difference when it comes to maturity generally speaking between someone in his early 20s and 30+, but is it really possible for someone to make such a big jump and ride the bike without any problems? I was always under the impression that litre bikes do not forgive people and someone needs years and years of experience to ride one. The power difference between a 250cc from the 1980s and any of the superbikes will be crazy. 
 

I did work in a factory about 10 years ago and one of the lads in his 20s got a Yamaha R6 as his first bike after passing his test and he was fine on it. 
 

Unless someone wants to correct me, someone passing his bike test and getting a litre bike with very little experience is like someone passing his car test and getting a Nissan Skyline.
 

Does anyone know someone who started on a 1000cc superbike after passing his test? 

[Stu]

to me its irrelevant what bike you get as a first bike 

 

Be a dick and it will bite you in the arse  

 

The throttle works both ways and its just about learning and not running before you can walk 

[bud]

My brother passed his test and brought a brand new SRAD 750 when they were one of the top bikes. Never ridden on the road before apart from his test.

He was in his early twenties. We had motocross bikes before that.  He was fine.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

It's more to do with the person than the bike. There are some people who have the intelligence and self-control and there are some who don't.

[Geoff Wilson]

16 minutes ago, Stu said:

to me its irrelevant what bike you get as a first bike 

 

Be a dick and it will bite you in the arse  

 

The throttle works both ways and its just about learning and not running before you can walk 

Except someone can pull the throttle back quite a bit on a 250cc bike from the 1980s and it will take a while to get to 100mph, but a GSXR1000 will reach 100mph in 2nd gear or something like that. The acceleration difference is going to be huge. What about when going out of a corner? On a smaller bike you can get away with giving it a bit of throttle a bit too early but on a litre bike the back end would bite you in the arse and you could quite easily come off your bike. 
 

What about when you first start riding your bike and tyres are cold? Can you still accelerate hard on a litre bike? 
 

Also, what about when braking hard? Superbikes are basically track bikes that are road legal, from what I have read the throttle and brakes are meant to be very sharp. So just like accelerating too hard and quickly could cause problems, braking too hard and quickly could cause problems. 
 

Surely someone with little experience getting a litre bike that is a superbike is running before he can even walk! Even modern-day 600cc road bikes are more than enough and can get someone into trouble very quickly. 

[Geoff Wilson]

20 minutes ago, bud said:

My brother passed his test and brought a brand new SRAD 750 when they were one of the top bikes. Never ridden on the road before apart from his test.

He was in his early twenties. We had motocross bikes before that.  He was fine.

Did he ever tell you whether it hindered him from learning to ride a bike? 
 

Did he ever end up getting a litre bike?
 

What does he have now? 

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Wilson said:

Except someone can pull the throttle back quite a bit on a 250cc bike from the 1980s and it will take a while to get to 100mph, but a GSXR1000 will reach 100mph in 2nd gear or something like that. The acceleration difference is going to be huge. What about when going out of a corner? On a smaller bike you can get away with giving it a bit of throttle a bit too early but on a litre bike the back end would bite you in the arse and you could quite easily come off your bike. 
 

What about when you first start riding your bike and tyres are cold? Can you still accelerate hard on a litre bike? 
 

Also, what about when braking hard? Superbikes are basically track bikes that are road legal, from what I have read the throttle and brakes are meant to be very sharp. So just like accelerating too hard and quickly could cause problems, braking too hard and quickly could cause problems. 
 

Surely someone with little experience getting a litre bike that is a superbike is running before he can even walk! Even modern-day 600cc road bikes are more than enough and can get someone into trouble very quickly. 

 

And thats the point! if you start riding like a dick it will bite you in the arse 

 

you can screw up on all sorts of bikes and power outputs 

 

You can lock up the brakes on all bikes and if you can't then there is something wrong with the brakes or it has very good ABS 

 

Running before you can walk is trying to ride beyond your abilities 

 

A 600cc is far better than new riders abilities but somehow everyone says they are the most suitable bike  

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I have two bikes, a 500 and a 1200. The 1200 has several rider aids such as traction control and switchable modes for when it is wet. It accelerates faster and stops quicker. I'm happy on both as they are horses for courses, but in terms of feeling safe I prefer the 1200 if only because if I need power it's there. 

[Pie man]

I don't think it matters, only you are in control when riding that bike. I have two bikes, one is double the torque of the other. Both deliver enough power, obviously one more than the other. I prefer the smaller of the two to be honest. 

[Fiddlesticks]

I passed in Feb and bought a 1300. Not dead yet, but the lack of a screen does act as a bit of a speed limiter.
 

I wouldn't blame anyone for starting out on a 600. Others have mentioned the power of a "big" bike, but there's also the extra weight to consider. And the higher insurance premium. Against that put the fact that you may really want a particular bike, and damn it,  you've passed your test.  The government, of all people, deems you a fit and proper person to be riding a Suzuki Hayabusa. Who are you to argue?

 

Lots of arguments for and against, but it comes down to the individual and what they are comfortable with.

[Gerontious]

My usual advice to anyone making this kind of leap is to have some advanced training. But, of course for many its just a pipe dream as the insurance for a brand new rider can be extortionate. But there are always exceptions.

 

From what Ive seen over the years its not so much the power of the bike that catches new riders out. its the weight, with the damage being caused at a standstill.

[bud]

13 hours ago, Geoff Wilson said:

Did he ever tell you whether it hindered him from learning to ride a bike? 
 

Did he ever end up getting a litre bike?
 

What does he have now? 

He is not allowed bikes anymore. His wife put her foot down after getting stopped going 157mph. Previously to that he went to court for in excess of 130, in a 30.

He had the Suzuki, then a Kawasaki 7R, then an R1.

Always said the Kawasaki was the fastest point to point. Never got close to the Times he could get places on the other's. Had so much confidence in the handling.

I think it helped having ridden bikes off road before. It certainly never hurt his speed.

Edited May 27, 2022 by bud

[S-Westerly]

6 hours ago, bud said:

He is not allowed bikes anymore. His wife put her foot down after getting stopped going 157mph. Previously to that he went to court for in excess of 130, in a 30.

He had the Suzuki, then a Kawasaki 7R, then an R1.

Always said the Kawasaki was the fastest point to point. Never got close to the Times he could get places on the other's. Had so much confidence in the handling.

I think it helped having ridden bikes off road before. It certainly never hurt his speed.

If he got done for doing 130 in a 30 I would politely say that his opinion on safely riding a bike isn't worth Jack. Apart from being lucky he hasn't killed himself we should be more grateful that he's not taken anyone else with him. I suspect it's the law / insurance have put the foot down more than his wife.

[Bender]

Presumably with a lengthy ban... 

 

It's down to the rider not the bike. 

 

I passed my driving test 6 million yrs ago got rid of the l plates and the mini, went straight to a 3ltr rover, followed by a 4.2 jag, I was more of a danger in the 850 mini  

[Pie man]

2 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

If he got done for doing 130 in a 30 I would politely say that his opinion on safely riding a bike isn't worth Jack. Apart from being lucky he hasn't killed himself we should be more grateful that he's not taken anyone else with him. I suspect it's the law / insurance have put the foot down more than his wife.

I would politely say any Tw@t can go fast in a straight line. 

[Fiddlesticks]

True. Most of the real fun is to be found doing double figure-eights on full lock in an abandoned car park with your significant other on the back.

 

... Although she may not see it that way.

 

[bud]

4 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

If he got done for doing 130 in a 30 I would politely say that his opinion on safely riding a bike isn't worth Jack. Apart from being lucky he hasn't killed himself we should be more grateful that he's not taken anyone else with him. I suspect it's the law / insurance have put the foot down more than his wife.

I did say this to him. His answer was it was four o'clock in the morning.

They would of taken his licence away. But other people would of lost their jobs. Got a massive fine though!

[Bender]

44 minutes ago, bud said:

I did say this to him. His answer was it was four o'clock in the morning.

They would of taken his licence away. But other people would of lost their jobs. Got a massive fine though!

130 is dangerous driving not spending your not walking away from court with just a fine and a few points, toting up can be into loosing licence and can and has been avoided an out right dangerous driving charge does not come into that category. 

 

 

[Geoff Wilson]

On 26/05/2022 at 22:19, Pie man said:

I don't think it matters, only you are in control when riding that bike. I have two bikes, one is double the torque of the other. Both deliver enough power, obviously one more than the other. I prefer the smaller of the two to be honest. 

A bit too much throttle on a superbike and you are going to be doing a ridiculous speed. Bigger bikes catch inexperienced riders out. 
 

Would you recommend a driver who has just passed his or her test to get a Skyline or a Ferrari?

[Bender]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Wilson said:

A bit too much throttle on a superbike and you are going to be doing a ridiculous speed. Bigger bikes catch inexperienced riders out. 
 

Would you recommend a driver who has just passed his or her test to get a Skyline or a Ferrari?

Learner died up here on a 600 by presumably pulling back on the throttle and accidentally launching himself down a street into a tree. 

 

An Everton supporter died on MOD1 at a test center by accidentally accelerating into the perimeter fence. 

 

It can happen on any size bike, it's the top end speed and acceleration after 90 that changes with ltr bikes. 

 

Plenty of 600 will keep up with bigger bikes till your in a straight line and doing silly speeds. 

[fullscreenaging]

On the other end of the scale

 

I learnt to ride a motorbike when I was 14, my mate taught me on his AR50.
 I messed about on a KMX 125 for a bit when I was 17/18 and then never touched a bike until I did my DAS in 2006 at the age of 35. 
I did my CBT and then had 4 hours tuition leading up to my test. 
In prep for passing I bought a GS500 thinking it would do me a year until I had built up some experience. 
I sold it 2 weeks later as it was so underwhelming. 
Everyone is different so you can’t think it’s mad if a new rider jumps straight on a 1000cc bike. 
They really are not as bad as you seem to think they are. 
 

[MikeHorton]

I've only been back to bikes 6 years and on my 4th bike. I personally started smaller with a 250cc bullit, then a Himalayan, tracer and now Africa twin adventure sports. For me my needs changed from Commuter, to leisure and Commuter then 2 up touring and now longer 2 up touring. Depends on the person and what you want to do. For me 1000cc sports bike would be too much for my needs and I'm past hooning around. The AT does everything well and isn't daft on the fuel and overall costs. What I would say Is if you want a big bike sensible or not make sure your skills are up to speed maybe do a bike safe or iam/rospa

Edited May 28, 2022 by MikeHorton

[Geoff Wilson]

1 hour ago, Bender said:

Learner died up here on a 600 by presumably pulling back on the throttle and accidentally launching himself down a street into a tree. 

 

An Everton supporter died on MOD1 at a test center by accidentally accelerating into the perimeter fence. 

 

It can happen on any size bike, it's the top end speed and acceleration after 90 that changes with ltr bikes. 

 

Plenty of 600 will keep up with bigger bikes till your in a straight line and doing silly speeds. 

How do training schools teach people to ride a 600cc or whatever size bike that has the right amount of power (54bhp) to get a full license if they have only ever been on a 125cc? There’s going to be a world of difference riding a 125cc and a bike that has the 54bhp power. I don’t know how much true it is, but my friend told me he found it easier to do ride the bigger bike compared to the 125cc bike when he did his CBT and he had no previous biking experience. 
 

Of course an accident can even happen on a moped, but bigger bikes get people into possibly dangerous situations a lot quicker. Is it really possible to actually learn on an R1 or a GSXR1000 after just passing your test? Sticking to speed limits, learning to corner properly, etc.

[Geoff Wilson]

1 hour ago, fullscreenaging said:

Everyone is different so you can’t think it’s mad if a new rider jumps straight on a 1000cc bike. 
They really are not as bad as you seem to think they are. 
 

I wonder if a lot of it comes down to how mature and responsible the rider is when riding a 1000cc superbike. I think the biggest problem is the question, “How fast will it go?” Then the new rider tries to find out and has an accident by being too cocky and overconfident. 

[Bender]

I went from 125 to 600 no problem same as everyone else on the das, it was easier to ride, smoother and better low speed balance, my own 125 felt crap in comparison