Fazer 600 2003 manifold bolts

[jedibiker]

22 minutes ago, WD40 said:

To me that sounds like top end noise. Camshaft/valves or cam chain. Maybe the leak has caused a loss of oil pressure at the exhaust camshaft. If you look at the picture. I think you've drilled into where the circle is, where the head stud and nut are recessed into the cam journal. Normally oil collects around there and builds oil pressure for the camshaft to turn on. If your drilled through and it's leaking oil out from around that nut it could be loosing oil pressure in the journal where the cam rotates that could be causing the top end noise you're hearing.

Im thinking its something like that, although when I first assembled i didnt lose oil there as sealed it but the nut wasnt holding torque so had to helicoil it.. is that the top looking down? if so i drilled far side.

[fastbob]

1 hour ago, WD40 said:

To me that sounds like top end noise. Camshaft/valves or cam chain. Maybe the leak has caused a loss of oil pressure at the exhaust camshaft. If you look at the picture. I think you've drilled into where the circle is, where the head stud and nut are recessed into the cam journal. Normally oil collects around there and builds oil pressure for the camshaft to turn on. If your drilled through and it's leaking oil out from around that nut it could be loosing oil pressure in the journal where the cam rotates that could be causing the top end noise you're hearing.

I'll go with that too . This isn't a blowing exhaust , that's just wishful thinking I'm afraid . It's not the camchain because that would be much higher pitched . It's got to be a cam lobe striking something . I'm not being facetious when I suggest you start searching for a cylinder head . If you have struck oil , you must have drilled into the cam gallery and the only thing moving in there is camshafts . 

[fastbob]

Right now I'd be joining this FB group and putting the word out that I need a cylinder head . https://www.facebook.com/groups/897258490288027/?ref=share

[jedibiker]

13 minutes ago, fastbob said:

I'll go with that too . This isn't a blowing exhaust , that's just wishful thinking I'm afraid . It's not the camchain because that would be much higher pitched . It's got to be a cam lobe striking something . I'm not being facetious when I suggest you start searching for a cylinder head . If you have struck oil , you must have drilled into the cam gallery and the only thing moving in there is camshafts . 

the stud backs onto the head bolt, so can only have gone into that chamber. But agree there is a relationship between the drill mistake and the noise.

[jedibiker]

joined the group cheers

[Stu]

2 hours ago, WD40 said:

To me that sounds like top end noise. Camshaft/valves or cam chain. Maybe the leak has caused a loss of oil pressure at the exhaust camshaft

 

Thats exactly what I was just about to say! 

 

If the leak is losing pressure and its on hydraulic lifters then that may well be it!

[WD40]

Yeah that's the top of the engine looking down. The bottom of the picture is the front of the engine where the exhaust cam is. The top of the picture is the back of the engine where the intake cam is.

 

The oil feed for the top end is a metal pipe bolted to the front of the engine. The arrow points to where the metal pipe is bolted. Oil from the bottom end goes up through the metal pipe into the top of the engine. It then goes through a passage to both camshafts. The red line shows this passage. The oil comes up where the red dots are. The camshafts have holes in them and are hollow so the oil fills the camshafts. It comes out holes in the camshaft to lube all the journals. You can see the holes in the camshafts in this picture https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XbwAAOSw-jFaDYdG/s-l1600.jpg The oil then leaks out from around the journals to the area around the valve buckets. This lubes the area around the buckets. It then flows back down to the bottom of the engine. The blue arrows.

 

If oil was leaking out of where you drilled instead of staying around the journal and around the valve buckets you could be losing oil pressure around the exhaust cam and losing the oil that should be around the valve buckets causing the top end noise you're hearing. It's just a theory, it could be wrong.

[fastbob]

34 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

Thats exactly what I was just about to say! 

 

If the leak is losing pressure and its on hydraulic lifters then that may well be it!

I don't think it's got hydraulic tappets  Looks like cams acting directly on under bucket shims . ( If anyone read this before I edited it , please try to un see what I wrote . )

Edited March 4, 2021 by fastbob

[WD40]

2 minutes ago, fastbob said:

I don't think it's got hydraulic tappets * Looks like cams acting directly on under bucket shims . HOWEVER , I've just realised that the camshaft sprockets are on the ENDS of the camshafts not in the middle like I'm more used to . Could this be the source of the rasping sound ?  * More research required . 

Yeah you're right they are regular bucket and shim valves not hydraulic ones. The camshaft sprocket is on the middle of the camshaft and down the centre of the engine.

[fastbob]

3 minutes ago, WD40 said:

Yeah you're right they are regular bucket and shim valves not hydraulic ones. The camshaft sprocket is on the middle of the camshaft and down the centre of the engine.

I know , I've edited my post but not quickly enough .

[jedibiker]

the thing is, it made this sound last time and that stud didnt leak at that time as the seal held although wouldnt torque up. so helicoiled it and the seal hasnt held. maybe the coil lets oil  seep around it.

a few said the cam chain tensioner could have got stuck, but unless welding would cause it then i doubt it. the area i drilled into is where the head stud runs and its not even meant to have much or any oil flow.

tough one this i guess

[Keeper96]

In times like this it’s sometimes better to just get things stripped down and have a look and see what the problem is. 

[fastbob]

The only way to end this speculation is to strip out the top end including the exhaust camshaft , clean out all the oil and examine the parts . I cannot imagine how an oil leak is responsible for that clacking noise . That's metal on metal contact oil or no oil . If you think the camchain tensioner is stuck , remove it and examine it . Interesting as this may be , I don't think everyone's opinions including my own are actually serving much purpose here  . What's done is done and there aren't going to be any solutions until the top end is laid out on a work bench . 

[fastbob]

1 minute ago, Keeper96 said:

In times like this it’s sometimes better to just get things stripped down and have a look and see what the problem is. 

Ha ha , that's the short version of what I have just written .

[jedibiker]

I do agree. Haynes manual ordered. Ive held off as just looking here and there means new gaskets at 30-40 quid a go. But at this point I cant see much other options than getting bits off. I may get the head off too if its not obvious from getting rocker cover off.

Oil must be getting pumped somewhere as its getting to the stud I drilled once running, but i know that doesn't mean its getting everywhere it needs to be. Going to be a bumpy ride this one.

So you may get some interesting photos as I go, which I hope will help someone else one day. (like just take it to a garage and dont buy bikes that need exhaust off to change oil filter)

 

[fastbob]

1 hour ago, jedibiker said:

I do agree. Haynes manual ordered. Ive held off as just looking here and there means new gaskets at 30-40 quid a go. But at this point I cant see much other options than getting bits off. I may get the head off too if its not obvious from getting rocker cover off.

Oil must be getting pumped somewhere as its getting to the stud I drilled once running, but i know that doesn't mean its getting everywhere it needs to be. Going to be a bumpy ride this one.

So you may get some interesting photos as I go, which I hope will help someone else one day. (like just take it to a garage and dont buy bikes that need exhaust off to change oil filter)

 

Things starting to make sense now are they ? 

Edited March 5, 2021 by fastbob

[James in Brum]

Jedi I am learning so much from following this thread. Thanks

[fastbob]

1 minute ago, James in Brum said:

Jedi I am learning so much from following this thread. Thanks

What , like when you f**k up your bike keep it to yourself and don't ask a bunch of dickheads for their opinion .

[jedibiker]

4 minutes ago, fastbob said:

Things starting to make sense now are they

Show off

[jedibiker]

4 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

Jedi I am learning so much from following this thread. Thanks

glad it helps. if i end up stripping the engine il photo or video it, more so to remember where stuff goes lol but will share

[James in Brum]

I want to get on with my bike but MrsInBrum is not well so will have to wait until tomorrow.

[jedibiker]

5 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

I want to get on with my bike but MrsInBrum is not well so will have to wait until tomorrow.

what are you doing to it?

[TimR]

Have you actually looked into the rocker cover .

Just wondering if where you drilled to far it hasn't ' blown' part of the casing and this is rattling around or worse still even into a exhaust port and through valve

[jedibiker]

6 minutes ago, TimR said:

Have you actually looked into the rocker cover .

Just wondering if where you drilled to far it hasn't ' blown' part of the casing and this is rattling around or worse still even into a exhaust port and through valve

Im going too now. But just looking costs about £40 for a gasket so tried to hold off.

[James in Brum]

1 hour ago, jedibiker said:

what are you doing to it?

I shattered by sump

and bent my exhaust. Have replaced the sump now I need to put my new second hand exhaust on. Put it all back together and fill with oil.