James in Brum Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I’m with @fastbob, if nothing else it would be really interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 heading into the engine today, what will I be able to check with rocker cover off? chain tension? will cams look worn in some way if damage has happened? also been told the big end could be done in and to get the sump off. All well but no idea what to look for. Did big end bearing shells on a fiesta once, but Im gonna bet this will be different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeper96 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 If it’s the cams striking something and making that noise I’d imagine it’ll be obvious, look for scoring or grooves but as I’ve said, to make that much noise that quickly if it is metal on metal it should stand out like a sore thumb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 hours ago, jedibiker said: heading into the engine today, what will I be able to check with rocker cover off? chain tension? will cams look worn in some way if damage has happened? also been told the big end could be done in and to get the sump off. All well but no idea what to look for. Did big end bearing shells on a fiesta once, but Im gonna bet this will be different? Hang on a minute . This is your partners bike so you don't actually ride it , is that correct ? So is it possible that it's been making that noise for a while and it's got nothing to do with the saga of the exhaust studs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, fastbob said: Hang on a minute . This is your partners bike so you don't actually ride it , is that correct ? So is it possible that it's been making that noise for a while and it's got nothing to do with the saga of the exhaust studs ? I normally check the big ends on a bike by taking the pistons off and pushing and pulling on the con rods at TDC . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, fastbob said: Hang on a minute . This is your partners bike so you don't actually ride it , is that correct ? So is it possible that it's been making that noise for a while and it's got nothing to do with the saga of the exhaust studs ? we only ride out together so i know it was ok before. taking them off from below? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, jedibiker said: we only ride out together so i know it was ok before. taking them off from below? If you are riding another bike with the sound of the engine and your crash helmet , how do you know what sounds this bike is making ? Take what off from below , the pistons ? With the greatest of respect , I wouldn't go near this bike again until you have studied the Haynes Manual and understood it . Once again , this is more speculation . Best to deal purely in observable or measureable evidence . Edited March 8, 2021 by fastbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, fastbob said: If you are riding another bike with the sound of the engine and your crash helmet , how do you know what sounds this bike is making ? Take what off from below , the pistons ? With the greatest of respect , I wouldn't go near this bike again until you have studied the Haynes Manual and understood it . Once again , this is more speculation . Best to deal purely in observable or measureable evidence . ive had this bike running loads and this sound is present at tick over, so of course I know it sounded good before. You said you take the pistons off to check so was assuming the bike still had the engine in somehow, but i would have expected to have the head off etc to do so etc. I have a manual, and was trying to gauge what your saying based on the brief reply. "I normally check the big ends on a bike" with engine still on and stripped etc. trying to make sense of what your saying Edited March 8, 2021 by jedibiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, jedibiker said: ive had this bike running loads and this sound is present at tick over, so of course I know it sounded good before. You said you take the pistons off to check so was assuming the bike still had the engine in somehow, but i would have expected to have the head off etc to do so etc. I have a manual, and was trying to gauge what your saying based on the brief reply. "I normally check the big ends on a bike" with engine still on and stripped etc. trying to make sense of what your saying I thought it would be self evident that the head and cylinders come off before the pistons . I'm sorry , I assumed that you don't have a manual because you are asking whether you need to remove the pistons from the bottom . Most manuals have a page that describes what operations can be performed with or without the engine in the frame . It usually depends on whether it has cylinder head bolts or studs and how much clearance there is with the frame . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, fastbob said: I thought it would be self evident that the head and cylinders come off before the pistons . I'm sorry , I assumed that you don't have a manual because you are asking whether you need to remove the pistons from the bottom . Most manuals have a page that describes what operations can be performed with or without the engine in the frame . It usually depends on whether it has cylinder head bolts or studs and how much clearance there is with the frame . It is evident normally, but I keep getting surprised by how somethings are done different. Ive seen a way of testing the big end with a screwdriver in the spark plug hole, piston just off TDC and push a little. Any movement and its a sign of issue. Personally not keen on that as don't want to damage the piston. Also, Ive not attempted anything without first asking questions, watching tutorials and getting any other info. But the Haynes manual came so Ive got direct info on how to proceed. So far I have done everything in the correct way apart from the drilling mistake on the first stud, which im guessing is how i f**ked up. That was stupid and I'm surprised I made that mistake, but I'm not stupid or useless in general. I also admit I ask alot of questions and sometimes its to reassure what I'm thinking. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxrob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 As Bob says, read the manual a few times and read as you strip it and take pics. Not all that familiar with Yamaha in line 4's but my Z you have to be careful to remove the cam chain tensioner the right way, more so on reassembly. You should have shims on top of the buckets. so measure the tappet clearances first for reference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 06/03/2021 at 10:21, fastbob said: Just pull the thing apart man ! Yup start with head, nothing to loose now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 hours ago, jedibiker said: It is evident normally, but I keep getting surprised by how somethings are done different. Ive seen a way of testing the big end with a screwdriver in the spark plug hole, piston just off TDC and push a little. Any movement and its a sign of issue. Personally not keen on that as don't want to damage the piston. Also, Ive not attempted anything without first asking questions, watching tutorials and getting any other info. But the Haynes manual came so Ive got direct info on how to proceed. So far I have done everything in the correct way apart from the drilling mistake on the first stud, which im guessing is how i f**ked up. That was stupid and I'm surprised I made that mistake, but I'm not stupid or useless in general. I also admit I ask alot of questions and sometimes its to reassure what I'm thinking. cheers No one , especially me , is suggesting that you are stupid . But bear in mind that when I started stripping engines there were no internet tutorials and nobody's opinion to cloud my judgment but my own . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bianco2564 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Does the bike have an oil pressure light, if its like my R1 that only has a low oil level light. If it doesn't I'd be suspecting low/no oil pressure. Can you take the oil filter off and check there is oil there, turning it over by hand should pump oil out. Is the new filter blocked or faulty, some filters have a clear film over the open face to stop dirt ingress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Bianco2564 said: Does the bike have an oil pressure light, if its like my R1 that only has a low oil level light. If it doesn't I'd be suspecting low/no oil pressure. Can you take the oil filter off and check there is oil there, turning it over by hand should pump oil out. Is the new filter blocked or faulty, some filters have a clear film over the open face to stop dirt ingress. Take the oil filter off ? ......errrm . Edited March 8, 2021 by fastbob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD40 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Have you got a copy of the factory manual? https://archive.org/details/printermanual-yamaha-fazer-fzs600-service-manual-1998 Page 4-6 shows taking the cam cover off. A few bolts and you could lift that up and see if there's anything obviously wrong with the cams/cam chain/lack of oil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 11 hours ago, Bianco2564 said: Does the bike have an oil pressure light, if its like my R1 that only has a low oil level light. If it doesn't I'd be suspecting low/no oil pressure. Can you take the oil filter off and check there is oil there, turning it over by hand should pump oil out. Is the new filter blocked or faulty, some filters have a clear film over the open face to stop dirt ingress. it does have a low oil light which hasn't come on yet. it looks like oil is getting around as it gets to the stud I drilled. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 10 hours ago, WD40 said: Have you got a copy of the factory manual? https://archive.org/details/printermanual-yamaha-fazer-fzs600-service-manual-1998 Page 4-6 shows taking the cam cover off. A few bolts and you could lift that up and see if there's anything obviously wrong with the cams/cam chain/lack of oil. I have a haynes manual now but will save that too cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 top looks ok. Also did the screwdriver test putting piston to just off TDC and non of them had any movement at all. Next I may need to just get the engine out or head off as Im not seeing much at all. actually looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxacmqdhegmfrpx/20210309_141953.mp4?dl=0 at the end you cant hear what I could and only turned it to take up the tension not a proper turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, jedibiker said: top looks ok. Also did the screwdriver test putting piston to just off TDC and non of them had any movement at all. Next I may need to just get the engine out or head off as Im not seeing much at all. actually looks good. Any pictures of the exhaust camshaft in the area of the drilling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 @fastbob yeah here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Plenty of oil and no signs of scoring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 when cranking, you can hear its doing its thing, after a nearly full turn it goes really easy then back to more compression. From memory that's normal isn't it. I don't really want to take the cams out while its on the bike, its hard to see what your doing really. to get to cam chain tensioner carbs need to come out or move back anyway so engine almost free anyway lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, jedibiker said: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxacmqdhegmfrpx/20210309_141953.mp4?dl=0 at the end you cant hear what I could and only turned it to take up the tension not a proper turn. I was trying to see the camchain but it was out of shot at the moment of the knock . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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