jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, fastbob said: I was trying to see the camchain but it was out of shot at the moment of the knock . its hard to get a good view or feel of it. cant tell if its tight or loose or what. id love to get a proper look, engine out and all by the book. trying to work in the frame is a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Frog Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 More a thought for Bob than anything else but do you think there is a benefit to taking out the plugs and spinning the engine using a drill and socket on the generator end of the crank? I was wondering if the lack of noise from combustion would allow easier tracing of this knocking. What do you think? Cheers Ian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 this is focused more on the chain https://www.dropbox.com/s/0c7s0y16xled7a4/20210309_154735.mp4?dl=0 at the end im only pushing slightly to trigger the sound, i think it would make that sound doing that anyway as its going against what it should dol. was trying to create the sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, Ian Frog said: More a thought for Bob than anything else but do you think there is a benefit to taking out the plugs and spinning the engine using a drill and socket on the generator end of the crank? I was wondering if the lack of noise from combustion would allow easier tracing of this knocking. What do you think? Cheers Ian Why a drill when you can use the starter motor ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, jedibiker said: its hard to get a good view or feel of it. cant tell if its tight or loose or what. id love to get a proper look, engine out and all by the book. trying to work in the frame is a pain. I was trying to view the camchain where it goes from one sprocket to another but the camera dipped too low . This is where the sound often comes from as it slackens and then snaps taught against the upper guide . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, fastbob said: I was trying to view the camchain where it goes from one sprocket to another but the camera dipped too low . This is where the sound often comes from as it slackens and then snaps taught against the upper guide . did the last video show you? https://www.dropbox.com/s/0c7s0y16xled7a4/20210309_154735.mp4?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxrob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Not usually a good idea to turn the motor backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, linuxrob said: Not usually a good idea to turn the motor backwards. thats why it was just to take up tension and not move anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, jedibiker said: did the last video show you? https://www.dropbox.com/s/0c7s0y16xled7a4/20210309_154735.mp4?dl=0 Well I didn't hear any unusual noises . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Frog Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 38 minutes ago, fastbob said: Why a drill when you can use the starter motor ? Fair point the drill was aimed at removing as much bike generated noise but thinking about it that would probably be faster and more likely to reveal noise. Cheers Ian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 Some more pics these 2 are piston 1 set to TDC cam shaft mark to the top. and a shot showing the valve buckets. look normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 and shots of the other parts of the cam at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mississippi Bullfrog Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I was going to suggest taking the plugs out, not only will it make it easier to turn the engine but if you get the knock with them out (ie no compression) you definitely know it's mechanical rather than a leak at the manifold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, jedibiker said: and shots of the other parts of the cam at the same time Well it all looks fine in the photos and there is certainly no lack of oil . Good luck with finding the source of the percussive noise . I think it's really all down to you now . If I'm honest , no amount of people looking at pictures and videos is going to be a substitute for a methodical hands on examination of the moving parts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 yeah i think its a case of getting head off and seeing how it all looks, cam chain etc. cheers just looking at the manual to get the carbs off, throttle cable looks a bitch to get to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, jedibiker said: yeah i think its a case of getting head off and seeing how it all looks, cam chain etc. cheers just looking at the manual to get the carbs off, throttle cable looks a bitch to get to Can't you leave it on and just tuck the carbs out of the way with a bungee ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickly Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 This isn’t a crack is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bianco2564 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 21 hours ago, fastbob said: Take the oil filter off ? ......errrm . The engine sounded like a bag of nails so I'd be backtracking on what work has been done starting with the filter, its the only thing that's been changed. As it doesn't have an oil pressure light, how do you know its got pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD40 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Nothing obviously wrong so far. Oil is getting up to the top of the engine. No signs of cam lobes hitting anything. Cam chain tension seems fine. If it was too slack you'd see the chain riding up on the exhaust sprocket as you rotated the engine. It seemed to stay tight to the sprocket as you rotated the engine so it looks ok to me. You could flex the chain up and down with your finger. It should be very tight across the top of the engine and down the front. You could start it with the cover off and see if the noise is more obvious. You would have to be careful nothing fell into the engine and starting it would cause oil to spray out everywhere but it might highlight the noise. Another thing you could do that would be less messy is measure the valve clearance and see if any valve clearance is obviously different compared to the others. That could indicate a damaged valve. After doing those two things I think it's cams out and head off and have a look. At that point you have to decide if you want to do it or would it be better bringing it to a mechanic and let them listen to it. All you've done so far is taken the cover off. You could just put the cover back on and bring it to a mechanic and get there opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, WD40 said: Nothing obviously wrong so far. Oil is getting up to the top of the engine. No signs of cam lobes hitting anything. Cam chain tension seems fine. If it was too slack you'd see the chain riding up on the exhaust sprocket as you rotated the engine. It seemed to stay tight to the sprocket as you rotated the engine so it looks ok to me. You could flex the chain up and down with your finger. It should be very tight across the top of the engine and down the front. You could start it with the cover off and see if the noise is more obvious. You would have to be careful nothing fell into the engine and starting it would cause oil to spray out everywhere but it might highlight the noise. Another thing you could do that would be less messy is measure the valve clearance and see if any valve clearance is obviously different compared to the others. That could indicate a damaged valve. After doing those two things I think it's cams out and head off and have a look. At that point you have to decide if you want to do it or would it be better bringing it to a mechanic and let them listen to it. All you've done so far is taken the cover off. You could just put the cover back on and bring it to a mechanic and get there opinion. I was thinking checking the valves was a good move. But i keep going back to the drilled stud and looking at it from the side, im starting to think Ive drilled close to or into the head stud running down behind the stud. The stud depth there isnt deep at all. I think Il also measure how deep I went. Exhaust off of course. If i have then il just go get an engine. There is one 3hr drive away.. (i deserve it i know) @fastbob if i undo at the front i think I could. @Mickly just dirt I think but will look tomorrow. @Bianco2564 its not about the oil filter, they are mentioning that as I only wanted to get to it and had issues getting the exhaust off and drilled a stud too far, which is likely the cause of my issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bianco2564 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 So you didn't change the filter after all that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 51 minutes ago, Bianco2564 said: So you didn't change the filter after all that? yeah. There isnt an issue with it apart from needing to take off some daft aftermarket exhaust to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) So, bit of an update Found the noise issue, no idea how a piece of metal got in the piston chamber, but it did. Its steel. The piston barrel is actually ok, just a mark at the top where the piston stops. Looking at bits to replace etc now. Engine did run nice apart from the noise from this. Will see what happens next. Edited March 17, 2021 by jedibiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, jedibiker said: So, bit of an update Found the noise issue, no idea how a piece of metal got in the piston chamber, but it did. Its steel. The piston barrel is actually ok, just a mark at the top where the piston stops. Looking at bits to replace etc now. Engine did run nice apart from the noise from this. Will see what happens next. You're going to have to check the valve seats and check for bent valve stems particularly the exhaust valves . Let's not think about bent Conrods at this stage . Edited March 17, 2021 by fastbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, fastbob said: You're going to have to check the valve seats and check for bent valve stems particularly the exhaust valves . yeah valve tool coming tomorrow. If the metal came through valves it could be part of a valve or damaged on passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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