Gerontious Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Just saying... Also its way past time this man was brought into the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essem Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Recently travelled from midlands to Bordeaux return by train. Using TGV in France, rule of thumb was that for similar price you can travel twice the distance, at twice the speed, for much the same fare. And in France your seat is booked, no standing, none of this 8 carriages of 1st class with 3 economy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob m Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Bender said: There in lies the problem its the same with the union demands, its as much political, something stammer doesn't want to be associated with or he wouldn't have sacked his shadow minister for holding an un authorised media interview. Bender, I get that you are a supporter of the government and a defender of Brexit. However, I disagree. I think the problem is the current government imposing austerity on the workforce that most needed financial support, while boosting the bonuses and profits of its donors. They hate the working classes, always have, always will. Why are they surprised when the working classes rise up and ask for more? Why aren't we rioting about the billions wasted on PPE and a not fit for purpose track and trace system? Or that the fuel/energy companies that are laughing at us while raking the profits in and enjoying the benefits? This government have taken everybody for mugs. The worst affected are those who believed that Johnson was somehow a capable PM and Brexit was a good idea...but they won't admit it. The first question you have to ask yourself when a Tory policy is implemented is 'what is in it for them?' Not enough people have, They've had you all for fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, rob m said: Bender, I get that you are a supporter of the government and a defender of Brexit. However, I disagree. I think the problem is the current government imposing austerity on the workforce that most needed financial support, while boosting the bonuses and profits of its donors. They hate the working classes, always have, always will. Why are they surprised when the working classes rise up and ask for more? Why aren't we rioting about the billions wasted on PPE and a not fit for purpose track and trace system? Or that the fuel/energy companies that are laughing at us while raking the profits in and enjoying the benefits? This government have taken everybody for mugs. The worst affected are those who believed that Johnson was somehow a capable PM and Brexit was a good idea...but they won't admit it. The first question you have to ask yourself when a Tory policy is implemented is 'what is in it for them?' Not enough people have, They've had you all for fools. Turning it into a political issue doesn't solve or answer any of the questions of the strike or the unwillingness of the union to put it to to the members Not sure why you get the idea I'm a tory loving brexit supporter from. I grew up in abject poverty from a mining family in a Labour run slum I should be red through and through but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Just heard on radio that the first big German city has started rationing gas. Riots, they may be along in Jan when they reckon fuel bills could reach £500 a month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBob Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, Bender said: Turning it into a political issue doesn't solve or answer any of the questions of the strike or the unwillingness of the union to put it to to the members Not sure if you know how unions work but at branch and regional meetings members will have given the leadership an idea of what will be acceptable! The leadership will be in constant contact with regional and branch officials who will be talking to members and taking soundings. If there is an acceptable offer or close to then that it will then be put to the membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, KiwiBob said: Not sure if you know how unions work but at branch and regional meetings members will have given the leadership an idea of what will be acceptable! The leadership will be in constant contact with regional and branch officials who will be talking to members and taking soundings. If there is an acceptable offer or close to then that it will then be put to the membership. Oh I have been a member of unions for 25 years and have never been sounded out for an opinion. IMHO my opinion and union reps have there own axes to grind and unless it’s the same as yours your stuffed. I have approached them twice for help, the first time I negotiated a better solution than they could, second they took path of least resistance instead of standing up for what’s right. Edited July 28, 2022 by onesea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBob Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 37 minutes ago, onesea said: Oh I have been a member of unions for 25 years and have never been sounded out for an opinion. IMHO my opinion and union reps have there own axes to grind and unless it’s the same as yours your stuffed. I have approached them twice for help, the first time I negotiated a better solution than they could, second they took path of least resistance instead of standing up for what’s right. I've been on strike twice! .. On both occasions union reps were talking to us rank and file members every day! .. we also had regular branch meetings and were kept informed of how negotiations were going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 hours ago, onesea said: Oh I have been a member of unions for 25 years and have never been sounded out for an opinion. IMHO my opinion and union reps have there own axes to grind and unless it’s the same as yours your stuffed. I have approached them twice for help, the first time I negotiated a better solution than they could, second they took path of least resistance instead of standing up for what’s right. Pretty much the experience the wife has had with them. @KiwiBobthe reason they gave or a rep gave on radio was there was such a high call to strike they can ask what they want, but they won't say what they want as that's not how you negotiate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I've been a union member since 1977 and I've yet to actually see union official. Not anti Union but I am anti the concept that if you are a union member you MUST belong to a certain political tribe. Like it or not unions do on occasion cause more harm than good. There's a reason there is virtually no commercial ship building left in the UK- decades ago the unions fought tooth and nail against modernising practices and processes in British ship yards. The result was ship building largely moved to Japan and Korea and now China and British yards virtually disappeared removing a whole swathe of technological know how from our industrial base. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy sugger Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 When I started working at BB there was a closed shop, you had to join the AUEW to work there. I refused, on the grounds the union wasn't employing me, BB were, and why should I pay, via union fees to work there in the end I joined (if I wanted the job, no choice), but point blank refused to take part in any industrial action unless it involved a H&S issue, and my membership would not be used for block votes at election times 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essem Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Back in the 80s the survey ship I worked on pulled into Aberdeen to pick up a few people. Whilst in we decided to take on some food supplies. The dockers union rep said we had to book something like 6 guys for 6 hours. So a few of us loaded the stores ourselves in half an hour. Mucho shouting, company resulted in the company took their trade elsewhere after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, Essem said: Back in the 80s the survey ship I worked on pulled into Aberdeen to pick up a few people. Whilst in we decided to take on some food supplies. The dockers union rep said we had to book something like 6 guys for 6 hours. So a few of us loaded the stores ourselves in half an hour. Mucho shouting, company resulted in the company took their trade elsewhere after that. If you want self destructive militant dockers, that’s one where Liverpool has to lead the way: Some examples of industrial actions taken prior to the mid-20th century included the dock strike of 1890 and the 1911 Liverpool general transport strike. A strike in late 1967 … the strike involved around 16,000 workers …….Just two years later in July 1969, dockers again, involving 11,000 men …… A few years later in 1972, Liverpool dockers joined longest known dispute, which was technically not a strike as the workforce were all dismissed, was the Liverpool dockers' dispute (1995–98)… Oh yeah and they are not done yet: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/union-warns-chaos-liverpools-docks-24527737 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essem Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 It was the lack of reason which struck me. They wanted full shift for a team, even though it only required 3 or 4 for less than an hour. It often seems that industrial disputes are meeting of unreasonable people on all sides of the fence, which is unfortunate as everyone loses out in the long run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickjaxe Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Sorry but train drivers are waaaaaaayyyyyy way over paid.....its mostly automated.....£70 pa......my god.....they dont even have to steer the thing..... My god they dont even have to fuel the thing up.....turn up for work.....climb in the cab....press a button....push a lever when you get a green light. I know lots will say but all that responsibility other take that for the driver.....signal operator's ect......sorry dont wash.....a Nurse is lucky to earn £25k.... For gods sake.....they dont even need to know what route to take. Rail workers need taking down a peg or 2 inc net work rail....all out of control.....I used to be able to afford to go on a train once to London.....my god how expensive that is.....wish I still could. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBob Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, nickjaxe said: Sorry but train drivers are waaaaaaayyyyyy way over paid.....its mostly automated.....£70 pa......my god.....they dont even have to steer the thing..... My god they dont even have to fuel the thing up.....turn up for work.....climb in the cab....press a button....push a lever when you get a green light. I know lots will say but all that responsibility other take that for the driver.....signal operator's ect......sorry dont wash.....a Nurse is lucky to earn £25k.... For gods sake.....they dont even need to know what route to take. Rail workers need taking down a peg or 2 inc net work rail....all out of control.....I used to be able to afford to go on a train once to London.....my god how expensive that is.....wish I still could. The majority of railworkers aren't drivers! What about the On Board Customer Service people on £23,000? The On Train Technicians on £25,000? Or the others that are on around £10/Hr? If you fancy the job driving a train there are vacancies .. at £58,000 .. https://uk.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=8e03bd5e3b3e97cb&fccid=e7042112989bfd01&vjs=3 Edited July 30, 2022 by KiwiBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bianco2564 Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Dont you just love the hypocrisy of the union leaders moaning about fat cat pay? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10945175/The-union-fat-cats-make-four-times-members-salaries.html 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 5 hours ago, KiwiBob said: The majority of railworkers aren't drivers! What about the On Board Customer Service people on £23,000? The On Train Technicians on £25,000? Or the others that are on around £10/Hr? If you fancy the job driving a train there are vacancies .. at £58,000 .. https://uk.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=8e03bd5e3b3e97cb&fccid=e7042112989bfd01&vjs=3 Ohh only best part of 60k plus final salary pension and other perks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBob Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Bender said: Ohh only best part of 60k plus final salary pension and other perks. Apply then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiBob Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Bianco2564 said: Dont you just love the hypocrisy of the union leaders moaning about fat cat pay? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10945175/The-union-fat-cats-make-four-times-members-salaries.html Don't you just love how the Daily Mail quote average rail workers pay at £31,000 when it suits their agenda but always quotes drivers pay when talking of rail strikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Don't know, don't read the Mail. Do know that UK rail fares are the most expensive in Europe. Just for interest anyone know what a French train driver earns by way of comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Answered my own question - apparently German drivers get around 45,000 euros and French ones 40,000. Quite a bit less than ours so it may reflect in the fares although I don't think the number of drivers vs the number of ripped off passengers really adds up so I guess the companies are screwing us as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 3 hours ago, KiwiBob said: Don't you just love how the Daily Mail quote average rail workers pay at £31,000 when it suits their agenda but always quotes drivers pay when talking of rail strikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 15 hours ago, KiwiBob said: Apply then! What would be the point of that, I'm not a train driver nor do I have any wish to be one, I also don't fancy being a nurse who are more under paid and under valued. I'm not keen on being a bus driver either 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe85 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 The Tories are always prepared to be radical with poor peoples money. f**k em. RMT has my full support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe85 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 On 30/07/2022 at 16:36, Bianco2564 said: Dont you just love the hypocrisy of the union leaders moaning about fat cat pay? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10945175/The-union-fat-cats-make-four-times-members-salaries.html Really? Can you elaborate on the hypocrisy part? You realise that Lynch was elected by his fellow members, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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