Thinking about next year’s tour.

[husoi]

The only advantage I personally find on the ferry direct to Santander or Bilbao is that you sleep while you travel.

Cost wise I do think Dover - Calais then ride down to Spain will be a bit cheaper.

Yes you have the french to deal with...

Still good wine and cheese 

[Steve_M]

2 hours ago, husoi said:

The only advantage I personally find on the ferry direct to Santander or Bilbao is that you sleep while you travel.

Cost wise I do think Dover - Calais then ride down to Spain will be a bit cheaper.

Yes you have the french to deal with...

Still good wine and cheese 

It’s 800 miles of mostly tedium from Calais to Santander. For us that adds at least a night, possibly two, in a hotel in each direction (say £100 per night - £200) and, conservatively, £200 in fuel. Plus tolls - last year set us back £50 for one direction down to the Alps. Discounting the bike’s running costs that’s already at least £500. Add the loathsome channel tunnel at £100 for a return and having to negotiate the bloody awful M25 I’m happy to cough up another couple of hundred for the relative convenience of the Santander ferry. 

[rob m]

1 hour ago, Steve_M said:

It’s 800 miles of mostly tedium from Calais to Santander. For us that adds at least a night, possibly two, in a hotel in each direction (say £100 per night - £200) and, conservatively, £200 in fuel. Plus tolls - last year set us back £50 for one direction down to the Alps. Discounting the bike’s running costs that’s already at least £500. Add the loathsome channel tunnel at £100 for a return and having to negotiate the bloody awful M25 I’m happy to cough up another couple of hundred for the relative convenience of the Santander ferry. 

 

I’m doing something similar-ish. Already booked a one way ferry to Santander from Plymouth, got an early bird ticket for £322 all in. Sailing out on 19th May, we’re spending a few days in the Picos then riding via Jaca to Barcelona for the Catalunya MotoGP. After that, across the Pyrenees for couple of days staying at a mate’s place near Carcassonne. Then just winging it back to Calais, where we go is dependent on weather, high passes might still be snowed in. We’ve got 15 days overall. 
 

For the ferry vs ride debate. I booked a ferry this time because in 2016 we rode to Spain through France over 2 days. The report is on here somewhere. It pissed down all the way and it was a totally miserable experience.
 

The other reason is it’s my choice and my money. I’m not forcing anybody else to do it.

[S-Westerly]

On 28/11/2023 at 12:33, Steve_M said:

It appears that a decision has been made. The tour will be initially heading west from Santander, then eastwards across the north of Spain, joining dots. We’ll avoid the Potes triangle and the N260 as much as possible as we’ve done those twice now..

 

The return to Santander will be via the Route Des Cols de Pyrenees, taking time out to visit a uni friend of my good lady who lives not too far from Pau.

 

Ferry to be booked in the next few weeks once we have house sitters* arranged.

 

* offspring use our place as a cheap holiday location. 

Looks really really good.

[S-Westerly]

"The other reason is it’s my choice and my money. I’m not forcing anybody else to do it."

 

That's the best reason to do anything.

[bonio]

Nice @rob m. I'd love to get to Spain on the bike, but not quite find sufficient excuse. Hopefully just a matter of time.

[Steve_M]

1 hour ago, bonio said:

Nice @rob m. I'd love to get to Spain on the bike, but not quite find sufficient excuse. Hopefully just a matter of time.

Well worth a look. Some great scenery and some pretty fair roads. Photos from our 2017 trip. The first is from Mirador del Fitu, the second is a little south east of Vega de pas.

 

 

 

[rob m]

Yep. Amazing place and roads. 
 

 
 

 

[Gerontious]

8 hours ago, bonio said:

I'd love to get to Spain on the bike, but not quite find sufficient excuse. Hopefully just a matter of time.

 

When I went to see Snoddy, on Sunday we discussed this very subject. Obviously there is no way I could ever convince him to pay for the ferry. And that's OK. Im not bothered either way.

 

our back of an envelope plan is to spend 4/5 days getting there. 4/5 days 'there' and then 4/5 days getting back to the tunnel. no rush. no motorways. no tolls.

 

A non motorway direct route from the tunnel to Pau is 630 miles. so divide that by 4 = 157 miles. not exactly long days in the saddle, but our route won't be quite so direct and rather more picturesque so it will be upped to around +/- 230 miles per day. again not exactly onerous.

And will allow me to visit parts of France Ive never seen, as well as some that I have but could bear a second look. different roads. different landscape. new. (to me)

 

And of course it might not even happen. I like to be completely flexible

 

France remains, mostly just a plan B.

 

I have two folders on the desktop. German Tour and French Tour. both slowly filling with set piece routes and it will be a case of joining them together 'on the fly' wandering from the end of one to the start of the next. I have a few days worth of Spain in there too.  Because: why not?

 

Jack remains keen on visiting the Harz. to begin with. but he knows it might not happen. he knows that none of this might happen and we might end up somewhere else entirely. To my mind there's little point in getting all excited about a specific place. Earlier this year I read a lot of really dreadful (to me, anyway) trip reports where people had not factored in any kind of flexibility. They had pre-booked everything. spent the winter with a laser eye focus on this area or that. And then arrived to rain. a lot of rain. and had nothing to fall back on. Its supposed to be a holiday - not a test of endurance.

 

I was reading these reports and looking at the dull as dishwater photos. and wondering to myself. "why the hell are you there?" - who wants a holiday like that??  - well.. it was because they were stuck. They had no plan B to fall back on. They had invested too much into THE PLAN. and look where it got them.

 

As of today... I really have no idea what will happen in June. All I have is the outward crossing and the return. and 15 days to play with.

 

This is of course, completely normal.

 

wow.. look at the time. onwards and upwards.

[Steve_M]

2 hours ago, Gerontious said:

 

Earlier this year I read a lot of really dreadful (to me, anyway) trip reports where people had not factored in any kind of flexibility. They had pre-booked everything. spent the winter with a laser eye focus on this area or that. And then arrived to rain. a lot of rain. and had nothing to fall back on. It’s supposed to be a holiday - not a test of endurance.

 

I was reading these reports and looking at the dull as dishwater photos. and wondering to myself. "why the hell are you there?" - who wants a holiday like that??  - well.. it was because they were stuck. They had no plan B to fall back on. They had invested too much into THE PLAN. and look where it got them.

 

As of today... I really have no idea what will happen in June. All I have is the outward crossing and the return. and 15 days to play with.

 

This is of course, completely normal.

 

wow.. look at the time. onwards and upwards.

 

 

Absolutely. Last year we intended to ride the French alps, Switzerland, Dolomites and Tirol. The passes closed early, while we were there in September, so we headed south to include the Verdon gorge etc (we did the intended tour this year, incidentally). It’s the reason why we only book the ferry in advance and then make everything up as we go along - a bit Agile project management rather than waterfail….

 

Anyway, here’s a couple of quotes …

Edited November 30, 2023 by Steve_M

[Essem]

We did Plym-Santander return last week of Sept/first week of Oct this year, was £550 each for three of us sharing a 4 birth cabin.  Managed to upgrade to a posh cabin on way out - another £50 each. My fag packet calculations made it pretty much cost equivalent to the alternatives, and I concluded it was only worth the short ferry crossing to northern France if the ride through France was part of the holiday. I’ve done the blast down autoroute several times and don’t enjoy it much. We did 12 days zig-zagging between Spain and France in Pyrenees, then looped south through northern Spain on way back to Santander. Not one day of rain, blue skies throughout and too hot (for my preference) on many days. We pre-booked the first two nights after ferry, but left it such that we could head north or south of Pyrenees on day 3, depending on weather. We booked ahead a day at a time, combination of hotels and airbnb. This was the biggest ‘error’, as it meant buggering around finding decent places within budget, and it caused us to have two days on roads I would have rather not been on - northern Spain has some stunning twisty roads, but there are some heavily industrial areas worth avoiding. Next time I would have the alternative routes and potential stopovers all pre-researched.

[Steve_M]

8 minutes ago, Essem said:

We did Plym-Santander return last week of Sept/first week of Oct this year, was £550 each for three of us sharing a 4 birth cabin.  Managed to upgrade to a posh cabin on way out - another £50 each. My fag packet calculations made it pretty much cost equivalent to the alternatives, and I concluded it was only worth the short ferry crossing to northern France if the ride through France was part of the holiday. I’ve done the blast down autoroute several times and don’t enjoy it much. We did 12 days zig-zagging between Spain and France in Pyrenees, then looped south through northern Spain on way back to Santander. Not one day of rain, blue skies throughout and too hot (for my preference) on many days. We pre-booked the first two nights after ferry, but left it such that we could head north or south of Pyrenees on day 3, depending on weather. We booked ahead a day at a time, combination of hotels and airbnb. This was the biggest ‘error’, as it meant buggering around finding decent places within budget, and it caused us to have two days on roads I would have rather not been on - northern Spain has some stunning twisty roads, but there are some heavily industrial areas worth avoiding. Next time I would have the alternative routes and potential stopovers all pre-researched.

You’ve pretty well described our touring… booking hotels day by day. We had some issues finding accommodation within budget in Italy. We were amazed how expensive it was, on par or more with Switzerland. We resolved the issue by revising the budget upwards. 

 

 

 

 

[Mawsley]

11 hours ago, Steve_M said:

You’ve pretty well described our touring… booking hotels day by day. We had some issues finding accommodation within budget in Italy. We were amazed how expensive it was, on par or more with Switzerland. We resolved the issue by revising the budget upwards. 

 

 

 

 

Bought flights to Italy for Easter. Then looked for accommodation and activities - boy was that a mistake! Still, locked in now so I’m going to have to suck it up.

[Gerontious]

As and when I return to the Italian Alps. Dolomites area more than likely. I'll be staying just over the border in Austria. Italy is staggeringly expensive for everything. Though, oddly. in June, just gone, the petrol wasn't that much more expensive than in Germany. Previous years it's been significantly more expensive.

 

We stay at a little place called Tassenbach. which I find super convenient for a lot of attractions in that part of the southern Tyrol. Incidentally. There is a Pension there which is very popular with Bikers. https://tinyurl.com/ymm5yyyd

[Steve_M]

44 minutes ago, Mawsley said:

Bought flights to Italy for Easter. Then looked for accommodation and activities - boy was that a mistake! Still, locked in now so I’m going to have to suck it up.

I will caveat my point about it. The hotels we stayed in while in Italy were really rather good, amongst the best we’ve stayed at on any of our tours. 

[Steve_M]

6 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

As and when I return to the Italian Alps. Dolomites area more than likely. I'll be staying just over the border in Austria. Italy is staggeringly expensive for everything. Though, oddly. in June, just gone, the petrol wasn't that much more expensive than in Germany. Previous years it's been significantly more expensive.

 

We stay at a little place called Tassenbach. which I find super convenient for a lot of attractions in that part of the southern Tyrol. Incidentally. There is a Pension there which is very popular with Bikers. https://tinyurl.com/ymm5yyyd

We had an overnight just two minutes up the road in Strassen, at the Hotel Strasserwirt. It was “very nice” to quote my good lady. 
 

Do you usually stay based in a single location and ride out from there? 

[Gerontious]

20 minutes ago, Steve_M said:

Do you usually stay based in a single location and ride out from there? 

 

Ive done that. Ive also done it as "every night a different place"

 

So one year we went to the Vercors, stopped for a night at Avallon to split the journey south and then stayed at a single place in the Vercors, and did much the same for the return, but stayed at the usual place in Eperney. That was over a 'long week' we did the travelling at the weekends and had 5 days 'there'. Arriving Sunday night and departing Saturday Morning.

 

The only thing that's really become set in stone, is - over a fortnight, the middle weekend. especially the Sunday. I always have that as a rest day. Mostly because at weekends these popular areas turn into tourist hell holes. You go from 'normal working weekday traffic' to hordes of cyclists. day trippers and weekenders descending on the place, usually accompanied by a higher than usual police presence - radar speed traps and spot checks. then Sunday night - they are all gone. back to work on Monday. So, I like to avoid all of that and have a day off.

 

But, who can say? sometimes a particular region might have a lot to offer and so its good to stay there for a few nights - especially if the weather is good. A chance to ride without any luggage, leave that behind and head out.

 

It's always best to take each day as it comes, stop for a night and think about what or where next. or should we stay here for 2 or 3 nights and explore this region. have a goal in mind, but dont really obsess about achieving it. if it happens then fine. if it doesn't and I end up somewhere else entirely, then that's fine too.

 

That's why for next year I have two plans. either Germany or the South of France. Both circular routes that can be done clockwise or anti. no fixed day by day itinerary - just a number of set piece routes, wandering from the end of one to the start of the next. If I  end up going to the Harz - I might just wander through, or stay there a few nights and take more of it in. see what the weather is like. I can't be doing with fixed day by day itineraries.

[Steve_M]

16 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

 

Ive done that. Ive also done it as "every night a different place"

 

So one year we went to the Vercors, stopped for a night at Avallon to split the journey south and then stayed at a single place in the Vercors, and did much the same for the return, but stayed at the usual place in Eperney. That was over a 'long week' we did the travelling at the weekends and had 5 days 'there'. Arriving Sunday night and departing Saturday Morning.

 

The only thing that's really become set in stone, is - over a fortnight, the middle weekend. especially the Sunday. I always have that as a rest day. Mostly because at weekends these popular areas turn into tourist hell holes. You go from 'normal working weekday traffic' to hordes of cyclists. day trippers and weekenders descending on the place, usually accompanied by a higher than usual police presence - radar speed traps and spot checks. then Sunday night - they are all gone. back to work on Monday. So, I like to avoid all of that and have a day off.

 

But, who can say? sometimes a particular region might have a lot to offer and so its good to stay there for a few nights - especially if the weather is good. A chance to ride without any luggage, leave that behind and head out.

 

It's always best to take each day as it comes, stop for a night and think about what or where next. or should we stay here for 2 or 3 nights and explore this region. have a goal in mind, but dont really obsess about achieving it. if it happens then fine. if it doesn't and I end up somewhere else entirely, then that's fine too.

 

That's why for next year I have two plans. either Germany or the South of France. Both circular routes that can be done clockwise or anti. no fixed day by day itinerary - just a number of set piece routes, wandering from the end of one to the start of the next. If I  end up going to the Harz - I might just wander through, or stay there a few nights and take more of it in. see what the weather is like. I can't be doing with fixed day by day itineraries.

Nice approach. Having the mid-tour Sunday off is a bloody good idea. This year I’d made the error of setting a couple of goals for the second week which resulted in us being on the Stelvio on a Sunday. Awful… though we did get a relatively clear run for much of it.

[Pie man]

I don't think this will interfere with our travel plans but, mindful of Chunnel/Ferry crossings, next year Germany are hosting the Euro's, kicking off 14th June - 14th July, then, Paris are holding the Olympic games 24th July - 11th August, followed by the Paralympics 28th August - 8th Sept, and as always, the TDF kicking off 29th June - 21st July. I think its either an early June trip or another September quick blast might be in order for me. 

[bonio]

Thanks for the warning.

[Gerontious]

1 hour ago, bonio said:

Thanks for the warning.

 

We won't be affected by any of this.

[Mawsley]

I know I’ll start with the Netherlands, not made my mind up after that. I’ve stuck to countries where I can speak the language in the past but I might venture east instead this year.

[Pie man]

So far, Planning 3 nights accommodation in France (Motel/Hotel) and 3 nights in Switzerland (Camping) all that could change yet. 

[Steve_M]

A mate from Norfolk is heading to Scotland with a group of people in May, passing close by where I live. Some going who I probably know. So that’s another little trip added. Luckily he’s very organised and will have routes and stops all set up so it’s only a matter of joining up with them. 

[Steve_M]

Ferries booked for our September jaunt “sur la continent”.  I may cry next month when the credit card statement lands.