NeilM Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Gerontious said: Thankyou. though I see that somehow labelled was being loony all the time... and we all should known where that kind off thinking leads. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. I feel i need to explain. Whilst I am anti fascist (vehemently). I do not associate myself with the anarchist element within antifa. The quote is truelly a classic. Just ordered the t shirt: More blacks More dogs More Irish Quote
Gerontious Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Don't become fixated on the lunatics fringe. the opposition really really want that. inflate the lunatic fringe to become the entire thing and it then becomes simple to crush... and who would care then? Quote
NeilM Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Gerontious said: Don't become fixated on the lunatics fringe. the opposition really really want that. inflate the lunatic fringe to become the entire thing and it then becomes simple to crush... and who would care then? I agree. But some of them are lunatics. And I for one refuse to be associated with the lunatic element. And that is the age old problem with the left. We don't even agree with one another. 2 Quote
Steve_M Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 42 minutes ago, NeilM said: I agree. But some of them are lunatics. And I for one refuse to be associated with the lunatic element. And that is the age old problem with the left. We don't even agree with one another. I have, elsewhere, commented that the Labour Party are no threat to the current government because they have a tendency to self destruct. Too many factions, a much too “broad church” full of cliques. 1 Quote
S-Westerly Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 55 minutes ago, NeilM said: I agree. But some of them are lunatics. And I for one refuse to be associated with the lunatic element. And that is the age old problem with the left. We don't even agree with one another. Don't really have much skin in this game as I'm not left at all for various reasons. Nor am I Tory or far right. Small c conservative edging into libertarian and as small a government as you could get away with. However given we do have far right wing loons about when was the last time we had a right wing mob defacing the cenotaph or trashing a town centre or beating the police? I can't think of one although I'm sure there might be a few. Every riot or violent demo though has an anarchistic left wing faction which may or may not label itself antifa or nowadays BLM. Every time they do this it just alienates the majority of the public which then makes it even more difficult for moderate left wing voices to be heard. 1 Quote
NeilM Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, S-Westerly said: Don't really have much skin in this game as I'm not left at all for various reasons. Nor am I Tory or far right. Small c conservative edging into libertarian and as small a government as you could get away with. However given we do have far right wing loons about when was the last time we had a right wing mob defacing the cenotaph or trashing a town centre or beating the police? I can't think of one although I'm sure there might be a few. Every riot or violent demo though has an anarchistic left wing faction which may or may not label itself antifa or nowadays BLM. Every time they do this it just alienates the majority of the public which then makes it even more difficult for moderate left wing voices to be heard. Fox hunters. Country side alliance. How i laughed as the MET got stuck in. Serious note though. It's good quite sensible debate can occur on here without resorting to uncalled for personal digs. 1 Quote
NeilM Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, Steve_M said: I have, elsewhere, commented that the Labour Party are no threat to the current government because they have a tendency to self destruct. Too many factions, a much too “broad church” full of cliques. And thats why this country is in the shit. There is no serious opposition. (And I'm a sodding paid up member) Quote
S-Westerly Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, NeilM said: Fox hunters. Country side alliance. How i laughed as the MET got stuck in. Serious note though. It's good quite sensible debate can occur on here without resorting to uncalled for personal digs. Yeah my brother in law was there for the Country Side Alliance. My son in law was a riot cop for the Met at the time. As to fox hunting I think.it was Oscar Wilde who described it as the unspeakable in pursuit of the unedible I'd agree. Edited March 23, 2021 by S-Westerly Quote
NeilM Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, S-Westerly said: Yeah my brother in law was there for the Country Side Alliance. My son in law was a riot cop for the Met at the time. As to fox hunting I think.it was Oscar Wilde who described it as the unspeakable in pursuit of the unedited. I'd agree. I remember watching it live on sky news thinking they're going to lose patience in a minute. If it had been football or the left, the sticks would have been out a lot lot earlier. Quote
KiwiBob Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, S-Westerly said: However given we do have far right wing loons about when was the last time we had a right wing mob defacing the cenotaph or trashing a town centre or beating the police? I can't think of one although I'm sure there might be a few. June last year! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matter-protests-london-statues-racism-churchill/ Edited March 22, 2021 by KiwiBob Quote
S-Westerly Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 9 hours ago, KiwiBob said: June last year! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matter-protests-london-statues-racism-churchill/ Fair comment but still more on the other side. Two wrongs don't make a right either, violentdemosdont benefit anyone. Quote
Mickly Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I wonder if the new bill describes what is or isn’t classed as a demo? eg The Ring of red? All those noisy bikes blocking traffic on the M25 and other places? I can only assume that any demo by bikers could never be described as peaceful as by nature the coming together of a large number will cause congestion & noise. So finger point at Bristol and say “yeah that’s what it’s all about “ but the powers that be will be unable to resist using it to put down any kind of dissent they don’t themselves support. 1 Quote
Steve_M Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mickly said: I wonder if the new bill describes what is or isn’t classed as a demo? eg The Ring of red? All those noisy bikes blocking traffic on the M25 and other places? I can only assume that any demo by bikers could never be described as peaceful as by nature the coming together of a large number will cause congestion & noise. So finger point at Bristol and say “yeah that’s what it’s all about “ but the powers that be will be unable to resist using it to put down any kind of dissent they don’t themselves support. A point I made elsewhere. Quote
jedibiker Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 Protesting to protect freedom is one thing, the Bristol lark was utter bullshit and set up from what Ive seen. Protests happen due to laws coming in to take away our voice, the right to say no but in a peaceful way. Violent protest solve nothing and this isn't what the law is targeting. Whether they should be out or not, most people can see their rights being taken away slowly and want to fight for it. To suggest peaceful people fighting for our/your rights need shooting is pathetic. People smashing up our country, hurting people, burning everything in the name of peace, yeah let them have it. Despite all the above, I guess the gov will do what they want when they want, but some laws and legislation's have been changed by Peaceful protests, and/or people actually speaking up instead of burying their heads in the sand thinking it will all brush over. Quote
KiwiBob Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) I wonder if we would still be stuck with Thatcher's hated Poll Tax if the demonstrations had been "peaceful"? Edited March 23, 2021 by KiwiBob 3 Quote
S-Westerly Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 6 hours ago, KiwiBob said: I wonder if we would still be stuck with Thatcher's hated Poll Tax if the demonstrations had been "peaceful"? It wasn't hated by everybody, everywhere. I was neutral to it but my mother in law loved it as she saved a lot of money. The Council Tax that replaced it just tweaked things a bit but wasn't that different at least to me. Quote
Bender Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I don't recall the violence on either side of the minors strike being productive, and there are no mines to speak of now. If folk are so keen for a liberal stance on things they should peacefully vote them in, but they don't. 1 Quote
onesea Posted March 23, 2021 Author Posted March 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bender said: I don't recall the violence on either side of the minors strike being productive, and there are no mines to speak of now. If folk are so keen for a liberal stance on things they should peacefully vote them in, but they don't. Well not at the moment.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-56023895 Quote
KiwiBob Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, S-Westerly said: It wasn't hated by everybody, everywhere. I was neutral to it but my mother in law loved it as she saved a lot of money. The Council Tax that replaced it just tweaked things a bit but wasn't that different at least to me. Maybe not, but it was the riots that led to Thatcher's downfall and the scrapping of the poll tax! Quote
S-Westerly Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I think you'll find that her fall had more to do with Tory in-fighting over the EU. The poll tax may have contributed to it but to Tory voters it wasn't an issue. Quote
Bender Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, S-Westerly said: I think you'll find that her fall had more to do with Tory in-fighting over the EU. The poll tax may have contributed to it but to Tory voters it wasn't an issue. It was Hesaltine and the needing more votes than a win by 1 for the one in power, the tarzan comic pics in the papers used to be good, they fell out over the westlands sale and he went off to sulk and plot and she stood down instead of going for round 2 so a more thatcher friendly replacement could be put against tarzan to win, Mr Major was the man and we all know how well that went. Norman lament 0, George soros1billion 1 Quote
KiwiBob Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, S-Westerly said: I think you'll find that her fall had more to do with Tory in-fighting over the EU. The poll tax may have contributed to it but to Tory voters it wasn't an issue. "It was Margaret Thatcher's biggest political misjudgement - and brought her career as prime minister to an ignominious end!". https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38382416 Edited March 23, 2021 by KiwiBob Quote
NeilM Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Bender said: I don't recall the violence on either side of the minors strike being productive, and there are no mines to speak of now. If folk are so keen for a liberal stance on things they should peacefully vote them in, but they don't. No it just cemented generational hatred of the police/army in many communities. Quote
Bender Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, NeilM said: No it just cemented generational hatred of the police/army in many communities. Don't forget the scabs 1 Quote
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