Mississippi Bullfrog Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 8 minutes ago, Bender said: We are very reliant on gas powered power stations unfortunately, I believe 2 coal are been brought back online and a couple of nuclear are going to be running longer, we also have diesel farm generating capacity that's expensive when needed and prices for imported electricity are way up. Germany and Europe having to go to open market to replace Russian gas will be having a huge impact, its coming up to winter so all the producers are rubbing their grubby little mits in glee. Maybe selling the public utilities into private ownership wasn't such a great idea then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said: Maybe selling the public utilities into private ownership wasn't such a great idea then? It's not the public utilities, it's the open market prices, unless the gov is prepared to own and run the North Sea gas extraction and refineries along with shale gas there is bugger all they can do except subsidise the rest of us. It's a problem created by an over reliance on cheap gas by us but more importantly by Germany that's screwed us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said: Why is the price of electricity rising so much? We don't get it from Russia. I understand some is generated by gas powered generators but surely not enough to warrant the huge rise in price per kWh. Last time I looked most suppliers offered electricity generated by renewable sources. Unfortunately even the cost of electricity produced by renewables is set by open market pricing which includes electric produced by gas, oil, coal etc. Read something recently and the item took Shell as an example. Shell are both a producer of energy and a retail supplier. But Shell the retailer has to pay market rate and can not get energy from Shell the producer at a discounted price. IIRC the boss of Octopus energy was moaning about the same as all their energy is supposed to be from renewables but has to be a the market prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said: Maybe selling the public utilities into private ownership wasn't such a great idea then? Private ownership in general not too bad, but allowing foreign companies to buy up the energy and other utilities is the problem. Though I tend to think utilities should be under one controlling interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Westerly Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Governments in the West who bought into net zero ideology and actively restricted development of new fossil fuel resources have a bigger responsibility to admit to but I won't hold my breath. A well-developed gas field is a good reliable source of energy. Wind and solar aren't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesea Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) I am no expert or history buff however... OPEC was formed to control the price of oil. They are a group of countries that IMHO are not exactly supportive of the West. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC The response to this in the early days was offshore oil fracking and other ways of obtaining oil. 70's North sea oil boom? For the last 8 years or so there has been a decrease in the price of a barrel of oil. OPEC countries no longer had easy money from oil, however the West pulled back it's oil production. Now there is a short fall why would they want to produce more? They are making allot more money for doing the same. Whilst supporting one of there member states Russia. They know it will take a decade or 2 for non OPEC countries to rebuild there production. Whilst grabbing for alternate sources of energy. Just an opinion. Edited August 29, 2022 by onesea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper74 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 In the last 8 months the cost of filling up my tank has gone from £11.40 to £17.80 and back down to £13.40 ..... Super Unleaded of course ... and at 80 miles to the gallon thats a lot of cost .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontious Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Interesting to get the gas increases into some perspective by comparing some fairly ordinary stuff and how their prices would be increasing if they were going up at the same rate as gas. And in some cases this may happen to an extent for those items that are energy hungry in production. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 16 minutes ago, Gerontious said: Interesting to get the gas increases into some perspective by comparing some fairly ordinary stuff and how their prices would be increasing if they were going up at the same rate as gas. And in some cases this may happen to an extent for those items that are energy hungry in production. Pub in London was selling a £80.00 pint makes £33.20 a bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 15 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said: Why is the price of electricity rising so much? We don't get it from Russia. I understand some is generated by gas powered generators but surely not enough to warrant the huge rise in price per kWh. Last time I looked most suppliers offered electricity generated by renewable sources. What confuses me is that shell energy who I am with uses 100% renewable electricity So has the wind and sun increased their costs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontious Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stu said: What confuses me is that shell energy who I am with uses 100% renewable electricity So has the wind and sun increased their costs? No. It should be cheaper, much cheaper however the suppliers are raking it in by charging all electricity regardless of source at a single unit rate. This is what business is all about dontchaknow. If something is effectively free and can be sold at the same cost as something very expensive and the end user can’t tell the difference. Well, why wouldn’t you? they are being allowed to do this by government. Edited August 30, 2022 by Gerontious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Gerontious said: No. It should be cheaper, much cheaper however the suppliers are raking it in by charging all electricity regardless of source at a single unit rate. This is what business is all about dontchaknow. If something is effectively free and can be sold at the same cost as something very expensive and the end user can’t tell the difference. Well, why wouldn’t you? I suppose its like buying bottled water! Those companies aren't selling water they are just selling plastic bottles! People keep buying it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mississippi Bullfrog Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 7 hours ago, Stu said: What confuses me is that shell energy who I am with uses 100% renewable electricity So has the wind and sun increased their costs? So are we. Yet the price of electricity is rocketing. Well, actually more than rocketing because NASA's latest rocket isn't going up, but the price of electricity is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 30, 2022 Author Share Posted August 30, 2022 The eu is looking to change the way electric is sold as the same system of pricing is not restricted to the UK. It's all set by the cost of the most expensive source..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzie Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 The cost of electricity going up is in part due to the fact we have over 50% of our power generation coming from CCGT. Gas turbines! Price of gas goes up, the cost of turning that into electricity rockets. The Netherlands are already looking at altering their fleet of CCGT's to run partially on hygroden! We've been caught with our trousers down by Russia turning off the taps, as Europe is scrambling for gas reserves from elsewhere. Other sources have increased their production, and with it the price. New generation nuclear plants (the fail safe boring ones that don't make weapons) would have been a great step forward, one was even planned for Anglesey (since scrapped). Produce a huge amount of base load with well placed nuclear plants, and then back fill a network of micro-grids with solar/wind that is battery backed. Keep going until we are in surplus. And there's a few good strategies to follow. My company a couple of years back said "There's 15 years left for gas engines/turbines". I laughed and was told I was a cynic, now neither of us are laughing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy sugger Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 We will all be buying pushbikes with dynamos. Won't get much electric but you will get warm and fit from all the pedaling 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerontious Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 40 minutes ago, billy sugger said: We will all be buying pushbikes with dynamos. Won't get much electric but you will get warm and fit from all the pedaling As soon as I read this, I thought about the film Soylent Green. The character played by Edward G Robinson pedalling his bike in his living room to power the lights. Scary thing is.. his character was born the same year as me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 30, 2022 Author Share Posted August 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, billy sugger said: We will all be buying pushbikes with dynamos. Won't get much electric but you will get warm and fit from all the pedaling Make a nice noise too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttled Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 This is a worse economic shock than the pandemic. The government is going to have to bail everyone out, or the economy collapses as so many people stop spending on anything other than household fuel and the cheapest of foods. Even if people do not use any electricity or gas, their bills will be bigger than before just because of the standing charges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted August 30, 2022 Author Share Posted August 30, 2022 Small care home on radio 5 this morning looking at a jump from 16k to over 80k for energy when their deal comes to an end in spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttled Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 I also do not get why prices are predicted to rise as high as suggested next year. Fuel prices collapsed when driving stopped during the first lockdown. A litre of petrol was about £1.40 and I was getting it for less than £1.05 for months. If everyone cuts domestic fuel consumption by even 10%, the price should come down, or at least stabilise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttled Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bender said: Small care home on radio 5 this morning looking at a jump from 16k to over 80k for energy when their deal comes to an end in spring. I have a relative who lives on his own in a one bedroom flat, who has a fixed rate deal into next year and when the subsidies appear in next bill, he could pay less than £5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholesun Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Dunno but I’m skint and I’m happy to have my bike to take away some of the misery of bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mississippi Bullfrog Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 I reckon I'll be walking around the house in my winter riding kit. I might even buy some heated gear to work at my desk - it's got to be cheaper than heating the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggie Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 A pub near me has just closed up. Apparently they can't afford the utility bills anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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