Fail? Using 'wrong foot' on Mod 2 test

[Ian Frog]

I know this might be controversial but I don`t use the back brake (Good enough for Joey Dunlop good enough for me) I have been riding since the 70`s and happily do hill starts using the front brake and throttle together.

I know it`s not the taught way but it works for me and when I was learning I lived in a very hilly part of the country.

Cheers

Ian

[JRH]

Hendon Shuffle! 
https://www.survivalskills.co.uk/riding_skills_43.htm

 

personally I do what ever feels right at the time. 

[Bender]

8 hours ago, Ian Frog said:

I know this might be controversial but I don`t use the back brake (Good enough for Joey Dunlop good enough for me) I have been riding since the 70`s and happily do hill starts using the front brake and throttle together.

I know it`s not the taught way but it works for me and when I was learning I lived in a very hilly part of the country.

Cheers

Ian

And as said that's great and you can do what you like when you have passed your test but you wouldn't pass your test doing it like that now.

[Blackholesun]

I recall on my training it was always put left foot down and right on the brake.always felt odd to me so as soon as I'd passed I reverted back to right foot down and left on the peg.

[Bender]

27 minutes ago, Blackholesun said:

I recall on my training it was always put left foot down and right on the brake.always felt odd to me so as soon as I'd passed I reverted back to right foot down and left on the peg.

I've stuck with it, I know know different

[Deetee]

On 09/09/2023 at 20:58, Capt Sisko said:

Daft suggestion but:- As you haven't got a clutch lever, couldn't you utilise the space to create a left hand operated rear brake or as you haven't got a gear lever, a left foot brake?

Great question! I will look into this. Many thanks.

[Capt Sisko]

Going slightly off topic but still related, my R1250RT has an automatic hill control hold brake. On a slope of 5% or greater it'll automatically apply the rear brake and hold it until the clutch bites and off you go. You can also apply it manually if you want to. My car, a run of the mill Toyota has something very similar.

 

Okay, flash git you say, not many learners ride a top spec BMW, but the point is this technology will filter down and eventually be on learner bikes. So, if a learner turns up with a hill hold equipped bike and doesn't need to do the old Hendon Shuffle, what happens? 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Capt Sisko

[Tiggie]

A very good point. Technology keeps moving onwards.

 

I work with a lot of Teenagers. One of the girls was doing her driving test last year and planned on taking the automatic only license as she was really struggling with her clutch control.

 

I gave her the usual speech about how it would limit her choices etc when I realised that Electric cars are becoming more and more prevalent and realistically that will be the main kind of car she will drive for the majority of her life. Clutch control will become as obsolete as manually advancing or retarding ignition timing 

 

 

[Bender]

7 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

Going slightly off topic but still related, my R1250RT has an automatic hill control hold brake. On a slope of 5% or greater it'll automatically apply the rear brake and hold it until the clutch bites and off you go. You can also apply it manually if you want to. My car, a run of the mill Toyota has something very similar.

 

Okay, flash git you say, not many learners ride a top spec BMW, but the point is this technology will filter down and eventually be on learner bikes. So, if a learner turns up with a hill hold equipped bike and doesn't need to do the old Hendon Shuffle, what happens? 

When it does and the rules change that will be what you have to do.

 

Was talk about binning the whole auto manual test due to the rise of electric and the increase in elctro mechanical autos but it's not changed yet.

[S-Westerly]

My wife paid for my grandsons to fo this introduction to driving thing which is for kids of 11 years or older provided they are tall enough. Obviously it's not on roads but the thing was this will quite possibly be the only time they drive geared cars.  Assuming this BS ban on new ICE in 2030 actually happens they'll be stuck with automatic electric cars. 

[Bender]

19 minutes ago, S-Westerly said:

My wife paid for my grandsons to fo this introduction to driving thing which is for kids of 11 years or older provided they are tall enough. Obviously it's not on roads but the thing was this will quite possibly be the only time they drive geared cars.  Assuming this BS ban on new ICE in 2030 actually happens they'll be stuck with automatic electric cars. 

I just insured our p5b 3.5ltr planet killing rover, me my 92yr old dad, agreed value, European breakdown cover, right to ownership even if written off £114.00 I'm thinking of buying a small bottle of chloroform and a V12 Jag which ironically will be an auto

[S-Westerly]

29 minutes ago, Bender said:

I just insured our p5b 3.5ltr planet killing rover, me my 92yr old dad, agreed value, European breakdown cover, right to ownership even if written off £114.00 I'm thinking of buying a small bottle of chloroform and a V12 Jag which ironically will be an auto

What's going to be interesting is how long petrol and diesel will continue to be available for. Will it end being black market under the counter stuff? Mind boggles really.

[RideWithStyles]

Hill starts...small roll back is a minor lots of roll and falling over is a fail. 
the reason they DONT want you to depend on using the right leg TO HOLD the bike up is that if that slips or you get it wrong you roll into the road getting squashed by a car that may be passing or on the other side of the road so its not safe. With the left leg the bike is tilted left and if you slip or get it wrong with the left worst is the curb or bank.

 

This is the assumption of a manual gearbox with a manual selector...if the bike is electric with no right side pedal for selectoring gear then its not necessary, its treated as a scooter. But they will still want you to use the left foot as in the first case.

 

If you dont have a clutch you would still need to balance the brake power to the out going electric motor power and not be trusting the hill hold to do the work for you incase it fails... this is safe thinking.

 

Even if the brakes are linked but the lever is there to use they expect you to use them.

 

 

Otherwise you have to do a dance if you were in neutral with the footbrake depressed -( front brake should be on anyway),  put right foot down, select first gear, put left foot back down, select (press) rear brake, release(ing) front brake, (balance clutch) set off.
Yep is a pain but the safest way...

[Stu]

7 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Assuming this BS ban on new ICE in 2030 actually happens they'll be stuck with automatic electric cars

 

Don't forget its a ban on new cars sold not an imminent ban that outlaws all petrol and diesel cars! 

 

There will still be plenty of them rolling around for years to come 

[Capt Sisko]

16 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

the reason they DONT want you to depend on using the right leg TO HOLD the bike up is that if that slips or you get it wrong you roll into the road getting squashed by a car that may be passing or on the other side of the road so its not safe. With the left leg the bike is tilted left and if you slip or get it wrong with the left worst is the curb or bank.

Good logic, but it goes against what actually happened. Most British bike manufacturers had the gear lever on the RIGHT until the mid 70s which makes a mockery of the whole lean away from the traffic agreement (which to my mind is very sensible). Furthermore the main reason for the British manufactures switching to a LEFT foot gear lever was that single biggest market for them was the USA and the yanks had had introduced legislation saying all brake controls had to be on the right hand side of the bike. Again going against their lean away from the traffic argument.  I don't know why the Americans thought having the brakes all on one side was a good idea, but it and the LH clutch / gear became the default and we're stuck with it now.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Capt Sisko

[jedibiker]

missing out on the wonderful roar and vibration sensatio..

 

But, the key to the test is being in control and riding safe. your instructor would be best person to ask as he/she will converse with the tester

Edited September 13, 2023 by jedibiker

[V650]

I would say on the day of the test to take a load of pain killers and use the left leg it is only for the duration of the test and go back to what ever feels comfortable afterwards 

Best of luck with your test by the way

[RideWithStyles]

21 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

Good logic, but it goes against what actually happened. Most British bike manufacturers had the gear lever on the RIGHT until the mid 70s which makes a mockery of the whole lean away from the traffic agreement (which to my mind is very sensible). Furthermore the main reason for the British manufactures switching to a LEFT foot gear lever was that single biggest market for them was the USA and the yanks had had introduced legislation saying all brake controls had to be on the right hand side of the bike. Again going against their lean away from the traffic argument.  I don't know why the Americans thought having the brakes all on one side was a good idea, but it and the LH clutch / gear became the default and we're stuck with it now.

Confused... what actually happened???

Tha back story is nice to a design issues what happened in the 70s. but has no relevance For The point is with that highwaycode and driving/ridings standardisations/tests ARE AND HAVE BEEN FOR in the last 20-30+ years.  Hince "the dance" and the active use of the back brake that has to be done unless you can get a special consession.

[RideWithStyles]

On 12/09/2023 at 19:26, Stu said:

 

Don't forget its a ban on new cars sold not an imminent ban that outlaws all petrol and diesel cars! 

 

There will still be plenty of them rolling around for years to come 

But you forget that most new cars are automatic as default nowadays and filtered even to superminis abet "automated" with nearly all being actuated manual transmission gearbox, so as it has no clutch for the user to operate by themselves its classed as a automatic ice or gwhizz power.

I dont remember any electric cars being manual. 

Most instructors cars are new so when most small cars don't have them as options. so do most new drivers need to learn a manual? less likely and even more so in the coming years as old is scrapped and new is old. Especially

when 80+percent are not car enthusiasts and just want something easy when they are stuck in jams or playing with their phones/infotainment system on the go.

 

bikes are slower to come round to this but it will if the government keep squeezing motorcyclists with their overbearing daft logic, case in point with licence and parking 
 

Anyway on a happy note here is manual porn.

[Stu]

8 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

But you forget that most new cars are automatic as default nowadays

 

No they aren't! 

 

These are built by the buyer at configuration 

 

There is loads of manuals out there and loads getting sold 

[S-Westerly]

13 hours ago, Stu said:

 

No they aren't! 

 

These are built by the buyer at configuration 

 

There is loads of manuals out there and loads getting sold 

True, but for example Mini have recently announced they will cease to produce any manually geared cars and only automatics. Very few Lexus are available with manual gearbox. The trend is  towards automatics. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by S-Westerly

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, S-Westerly said:

True, but for example Mini have recently announced they will cease to produce any manually geared cars and only automatics. Very few Lexus are available with manual gearbox. The trend is  towards automatics. 

It would be interesting to see the sales trends of these! I wonder if they only sell mostly auto's due to what the customers are ordering so they have gone with the customer trend rather than forcing it on to people like a lot of tin foil hat wearers believe! 

 

It may well be that they have to have a seperate production line for the manual cars and its actually costing them to keep it! you usually find these decisions are based on sales figures rather than anything else 

 

So that means the public are probably to blame for this laziness of driving 

[RideWithStyles]

.

fiat, only the base 500 with the 3cyl citroen and the panda 4x4 are manuals as there engines where never designed for a amt, rest in the ranges are amt and have been for years.

 

renault not even the clios are manual- off memory good number of years ago the RS was the only exception but even they say that the next generation of that one will have to change.
ford even with the fiesta is pretty much the same boat. 

bmw, audi, volvo yadda yada pretty much the same and higher the laddder less sticky wicky to get excited about.

 

Nope! Its all down the eu standardised testing emissions and regs.
they pay a ton load with every car that doesn't hit the emissions marker of FA suddenly.

Which even when the manufacturers play to those rules but get round it they still get ouufed.
When they are tested, If it has a eco button it must be pressed and used. This makes the car ecu have a super lean map and mass recycling of fumes to really reduce anything coming out of it but almost kills the engine.

cos they know the car is being tested, short time in this mode is not great for it but really bad tong term.

i had a 2014 fiat that had the "features" but wasnt a new party trick at the time even for a small "cheap" car but still played the game.

They are tested in a temperature controlled room on a super smooth dyno with a computer controlled throttling at different speeds for a set time at a particular gear, even if the user will never drive it that high revs nor that gentle throttle application, ie like 10 mins at 30mph in 3rd gear, 50mph at.....
 

Autos have a different test, they are just driven like above but the gearbox is left to decide what it needs, so at 30mph it could be preprogrammed to run at 5th or higher if it can... or higher again if the car thinks its being tested with lower revs and less emissions. About 10yrs ago toyota/ lexus with zf gearboxes i think had autos boxes with 8-9gears with it only being filtered down to scummy cars later on. Bmw (e63 mid 2000, f10 2010 at 7 and 8 speed) and mercs had them in their ranges agood few years ago, which in the last few years only the very last old engine base models kept the manuals but they are a obsolete engines now much to my neighbour dismay when i said to them when they was looking to change their car last year, anyway they only worked it out when they went to see the new cars...

 

the other part of they cheekiness particularly with the german brands was when the car was stationary with the wheels locked dead centre but the engine was driven the car knew it was been tested so the car would choose the super lean map like i said before and a complete dog to drive if you was to try it..... but when it wasnt tested it went to its normal default setting that made the customer happy to drive a premium car but leads to killing kids, drowning polar bears, eco enthusiasts shout, khan and sunak very unhappy.

Edited September 18, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[Bender]

Most cars are auto now especially anything slightly performance biased as auto boxes can change gear way quicker than a driver can, as most are now elctro mechanical they also don't have the parasitic power loss of a traditional auto.

 

BMW have reverted to a very modern type of slush auto in favour of dct but it still beats a human every time.

[Mickly]

On 11/09/2023 at 10:15, Deetee said:

Great question! I will look into this. Many thanks.

Are you aware of NABD ( National Association for Bikers with a Disability) ?https://www.nabd.org.uk/

They have a wealth of knowledge on this kind of stuff & you might even qualify for a grant to facilitate a conversion.