Child Access ... Stories, Help and Discussion.

[Trooper74]

I’ll start .... 17 years married ... 3 children 18, 15 and 12 ..... Every 3rd week i would get on the motorbike and ride from Cardiff or Norwich ... to spend the weekend with them ...

We had great weekends ... adventures and laughter, camping and skateboarding, surfing and motorbikes ....

Then one weekend .......

My eldest ... took me to the beach ... a place of safety to us .... He told me that he and his sister and brother where worried about how upset Mum was every time i visited ..

They loved me but did not want me to come again .... it was too upsetting for Mum and them after i had left.

I could hear my ex’s words to them in my head ... the master of manipulation was she .....

 

18 years later I only have contact with my daughter .... My ex poisoned so much happiness .... because she could .............

[Bender]

If your starting out in the lovely world of child access and or splitting up with kids involved in the wise words of the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

 

DON'T PANIC....

 

Regardless how awkward or deranged your ex acts or what they throw at you which may be literally, you have to be calm, walk away if need be, you can always return.

 

Keep records from day 1, write everything down, seek advice.

 

Try to work it out between yourselves, this rarely works, solicitors are expensive but sometimes unavoidable as is cafcass, who will be completely unbiased by that I mean all for the mother.

 

Cafcass will make recommendations to the court but do not take everything they say as the way it's going to go, if it goes to court, which it probably will if solicitors and cafcass are involved, the decisions will come down to a judge

 

In my experience mediation is a pointless hoop you will need to go through,  I had to pay for both of us to do it, even when mother didn't turn up, yay court system.

 

Kids grow up sometimes they work things out for themselves, unfortunately sometimes they are so poisoned they never really do.

 

 

[rennie]

We split up fairly amicably!

No solicitors involved no mediators no CSA nothing.

The kids just came to me when they wanted to usually at least twice a week.

and we managed to work out the finances without getting anyone else involved ( I probably overpaid)

I'm married again now and happy, all our kids are now grown up and doing their own thing

[Bender]

1 hour ago, rennie said:

We split up fairly amicably!

No solicitors involved no mediators no CSA nothing.

The kids just came to me when they wanted to usually at least twice a week.

and we managed to work out the finances without getting anyone else involved ( I probably overpaid)

I'm married again now and happy, all our kids are now grown up and doing their own thing

That's the way it should be done, I just wasn't that lucky, I Def overpaid.

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

A friend of mine has recently split up with his wife. They’ve sorted it out between them, he has the kids every weekend and picks them up from school most days, she has moved into rented accommodation and he has stayed in the family home (which has been signed over to him) and get this bit- her parents are helping him pay the mortgage because they don’t think she’s treated him well- she got together with a woman and it blew their tiny minds!

 

He even spent Christmas Day with his in-laws when the kids were elsewhere! Mind you he is possibly one of the nicest most easy going people you’re ever likely meet so if anything bad ever happens to him people rush to sort things out on his behalf! 

[Tiggie]

My Wife split up with her Ex, paid him out 25K to keep the house. He was never too bothered about seeing his daughter (my eldest) and would always ring to make excuses why he couldn't come for her (she was 5 at the time)

 

This carried on for a few years, one time (She was probably 7) after he rang on a Saturday morning to say he had to work and couldn't have her we decided to take her to the local park, guess who was there with his new girlfriend and her similar aged son?!! Thankfully we saw him before she did and made an excuse to go somewhere else before she saw (for her sake not his, she would of been heartbroken).

 

He would often ring my Wife up drunk, claiming we were stopping him from seeing her, he spread that rumour out to all his family and friends. I never gave a toss as I knew the truth. After he blew through his 25k he started hounding her for more saying he got ripped off and he should of got more for the house ,(was originally bought for 39k. The amount they agreed on was 25k as that was what had been paid off the mortgage in the 5 years they had it) 

 

He then just stopped contact. Once again claiming to all that we were stopping him (nope) and that it was useless to try courts or similar as My Wife's family are high up in Social services so he wouldn't have a chance. Absolute bollocks but his circle believed it and I assume it got him sympathy at the pub which is what he probably wanted.

 

He came into the petrol station I used to work at once, don't think he realised I was there. Daughter was just turning 12, I said to him do you want me to arrange a meeting? (he never mentioned it himself!) he said yes, I took his phone number and spoke to my Wife. We asked our daughter what she wanted to do and it took her a few days of talking it over with us before she agreed. (I have heard from friends of hers that she remembers a lot of things that went on with him from her earlier years despite our efforts to shield her) It turned out better this time, perhaps he had grown up in the several years that had passed, we never had any trouble from him again like before though he did get pissed off when he found out she had changed her last name to mine  (her decision, not ours. she said it made her feel like we were more of a family with a shared name)

 

She is 22 now and still see's him, though they often have falling outs and don't speak for weeks, that could just as easily be her though 

 

 

If I get drunk enough I might share my story of growing up as a child of divorcees and what a psychological head f*ck my stepmother piled on me between the ages of 6 - 11  

[rennie]

I kept the house! bought her out with an agreed sum (too much in hindsight)

When her next bloke had a bike accident it was me who took her to the hospital he was in

and picked her up and took her home the next morning.

They later split up and she kept his car cos he owed her thousands, my car broke down so I borrowed that for a week

 

Myself and my now Mrs went to the x's Brothers wedding!

 

It's a strange world! both my kids now 29 and 24 have commented how much happier and more fun I am nowadays 

 

I proper struggled financially for a few years and even now have too long to pay on the mortgage

[onesea]

For those reading having not gone through a child centric separations or divorces go more or less amicably other are much less so.

I was given 2 very good pieces of advice from my solicitor:   
1) Never loose the Moral upper ground,
2) If you cannot end with the words its in the child's best interest, you probably should not be writing or doing it,

There was also something I overheard some one say (Ironically a biker, the one that had me on the back of his bike at over 100 at the age of 11 :D ) I was a kid they where talking about someone talking in a situation, I cannot remember which "they are going to have to polish there balls till they are golden and never let that change".

My advice in a divorce there is no winner,
Keep ALL important communication to E-mail and if things are less hostile Text.  Keep EVERY EMAIL and a record and diary of all events.

In outline Legally divorce is split into 2 settlements:
1) Financial
2) Access
The situation with both of these has changed significantly, over the years although they remain child centred.  Hence advice number 2.
Both should be kept independent except - the less you see your child the more you pay in maintenance.

For me a brief history to maintain contact and information I have had:

• After 8 weeks away a 1.5 year old child in nappies past to me for the day with only essential information as to feeding etc I think I got one nappy - we got buy.
• No choice of my daughters schooling - this should not happen but is normal,
• Been forced to threatened the local council with court to find out which school my daughter is going to,
• Taken the court order into 3 schools and her Drs to find out basic information and to be put on there records - again normal,
• Threats of the police - again normal, more of note they have never actually knocked on my door,
• to for over a year return home from months away with work to what was my home to a house where I was no longer welcome (I could not move out the financial implications where massive (think about 1/2 your wages for 20 years),
• Walking round people deliberately standing in my way to create a reaction (see police above), I still shop in the next town as not to meet them,
• Accused by a solicitor of trying to murder my X wife from over 3000 miles away - that was surreal it involved no 3rd party!
• An attempt to swindle £1000 pound out of me or I would never be able to get a mortgage,
• Countless standing arguments with headmasters**
• Conversations with the School Governors, department of education &  Ofstead, 
• Been accused of having several mental conditions,
• To watch as my daughter was taught to call 3 other men "dad" and me by name (that bit failed), - again normal
• To pay maintenance even during 2 years where I was all but out of work, - would any but the amount was no where near proportional over this period,
• To call the bluff of CAFCAS (The CAFCASS "officer" remembered me 2 years later when I contacted them without referring to his files, he was not helpful),
• To live in a touring caravan for 4 years - partially as I was expecting to come home one day and find my daughter to not wanting to see me again,
• to for a second time build a group of friends over 200 miles away from where I grew up, I moved to be with the X  

** At a bike meet "Who where you talking to outside?" "My daughters headmaster", "You cannot talk to them like that", "Why not when your right" - was always and polite non threatening no cursing.
The following conversation left the other parties jaw drop. In the end a compromise was reached after if I gave the school a self addressed envelope they would allow me a school report.  In the end I stopped because my daughter said it was affecting her education. 
However a subsequent head having been warned about me tried taking to me to task and lost. Shortly after I was reluctantly placed on School emails notified of school plays and parent events, parents evenings eventually I was even put on the SMS text service (only after I was pulled to task for walking into the school playing field for  a sports day, it had been cancelled I had not been notified). In the following year I understand policies where updated this and much more was brought into place, I had done some good.

The effect on my career when the split happened, I was in the middle of exams for the next step up, these happen on set publicly set days on a Monday and Wednesday.  I passed the Monday exam several times, never the Wednesday.  I have spent several Tuesdays dealing with solicitors, eventually the time limit on the exams was reached.  This limited my career I was over experienced and under qualified with no way forward, when recession hit I became a victim.

Personally my life is ruled by access when I have her and when I don't, which frequently changes. I have had to give up sail boat racing, I cannot be there regularly enough, the same would be true for football or events. If I have my daughter if she cannot go I do not go weddings, birthdays and I am even selective about funerals you name it.
Now you know why I like adhoc and have only ever been to a handful of bike events and rarely book anything in advance, part of the draw of biking it has much less commitment.

Believe me I can go on and on.....

Good things:

• My daughter WANTS to see me and confides in me,
• She took her first steps with us, it was only a month later mum told us she could stand, by that time with us she was positively active,
• Luckily I found a partner early on by accident (with little access and to much time on my hands I was having to much fun), who had come from a separated family and understands the difficulties.  Over a decade later we are still engaged (Yes the X is one of the reason we are not married).
• My partner let me buy a bigger boat before a house (we still did not know if we would loose access, by then it was a we), my X would ever of let me have a motorbike or bigger boat she wanted to sell the other one),
• I am now in a presently secure job I might be earning 1/3 of the wages but at home every day (I cannot say nights, I work shifts), although presently not looking to progress until access is settled.  I am enjoying a job that I would never of dreamed of doing only 5 years ago.
• Life is rich
• You need money but can be happy on little.

I am a rarity as a non resident parent in an acrimonious divorce after over 10 years I have maintained access.  I cannot find the statistics but generally quality contact with non resident parents after 5 years are diabolical, less so but also true in amicable divorces.

To maintain this has been a constant fight, which for the last 10 years my daughter has known little about.  I have never hidden mummy and daddy disagree that would be impossible, however she has not realised the depth.   She was just aware that mummy and daddy fought over what's best for her.
Now as a young teenager she is to aware for that to continue, the fight after a decade has also become increasingly wearing. 

So now I am looking to law to get an old court order updated, to support the access we already have.  If I am lucky this will cost over £1000 and can only afford to do this because my daughter wants it.  I can only afford this as I am spending my mums in heritance (she lived through many years of this and will not be upset).

Prior to doing this check I had the cash in the bank, my daughter wanted it, I contacted my Dr to check I have not had or developed and new mental illnesses, contacted the police (regarding at the time recent hostile communications, they could not do anything but advised me to stop all communication), checked with work if they would be supportive that I might need some days off (mediation/ court?), contacted the school to advise things where not going well, I know of at least one safe guarding on my daughter because of these actions.
I have tried to stop my X father in-law being involved (for good reason) but have been unable to, he is in the mediation process even though on the paper work I signed no 3rd party was mentioned. 

When I have raised legal this and corrected another legal point with the mediator (a solicitor) I got challenged as to which solicitor I have engaged and not declared. My legal knowledge was to up to date legal as the rules had changed since I was last in court.  I do no think he believed me when I pointed out in 10 years one of the ways I had kept access was to keep up to date with the law.  Now the whole COVID thing is causing more chaos and tears and so it goes on.

Why have carried I on and not just walk away?  My daughter has always wanted to see me.
Right back at the beginning of the separation, I over heard my X-wife telling some one how I had assaulted her and abused her, which was not true.  I did not want my daughter growing up that I am the person she describes.
I have seen the effects of this in people of my age, and one who has continued the trend for a 3rd generations, it becomes the normal.

When will it end for me I doubt it ever will.  Mothers had boyfriends, remarried, another child at each step it has certainly never improved. Who's going to pay for further education? Uni? Which dad will walk her down the isle? my guess is it will be both of us and a fight at every step (well not the isle if that's up to daughter).

In the last 10 years I have seen some parents walk away with reason some parents walk away without. I have seen parents fight so hard they have lost there houses and jobs, and children its a very difficult balance.

My daughter has told me she has friends that she has supported (and no doubt been supported, although she has not said this) when there parents split, she has lived her life with this which is strangely reassuring, however not great.  Although her school performance is good and I have liked the friends I have been allowed to meet

The present UK system is better and improving however it still needs allot of improvement.

I have a friend in a different country where if parents cannot agree on arrangements the state will.  More to the point you are as obliged to be there for access as you are to allow it to happen, any repeat or unreasonable breaches either way are set upon heavily.

If you have read this far as I said at the beginning , there is no right answer - there are no winners.

If your going through a divorce and want support or advice (you might not always like what I say, I suggest you get other advice as well) and don't want to speak publicly (I know there are 1001 reasons for this) or just want some support (some one to shout at)  PM me, its a fragile time - I hope others give this offer too.

I could still go on the dangers of fathers rights groups and how to use there knowledge whilst in divorce, the advantages of online dating during divorce (and its not for what you think).

Edited January 25, 2021 by onesea

[Tiggie]

I have deleted the post and will add that I will be monitoring this thread carefully and will not allow it to be ruined.

 

[Bender]

I'm sure that in alot of cases finance and child access are inextricably linked, I'm sure I'm not the only one where the kids were simply used as a vehicle to create as much income as possible regardless of the effect on the kids or the methods used to maximise that, schools, doctors, police, cafcass, if you have an ex like mine no one and nothing was beyond use.

 

I can see why folk walk away, apart from the financial burden the emotional strain is huge, especially when your the one trying to fetch any normality to the kids and the situation.

[Tiggie]

My Wife's Biological Dad (The man she thought of as her Dad was her Mums second husband, he brought her up from age 11) apparently kept himself on the dole for years out of spite to make sure he didn't have to pay child support!!

 

Edit: not "apparently" as he has told me first hand thats what he did!!

 

 

[Trooper74]

53 minutes ago, Tiggie said:

I have deleted the post and will add that I will be monitoring this thread carefully and will not allow it to be ruined.

 

What post ?

[fullscreenaging]

The post you’ll never see as it was deleted. 

[Trooper74]

5 minutes ago, fullscreenaging said:

The post you’ll never see as it was deleted. 

I'll Live ..............

[Six30]

not all cases , but a lot, womens blood turns to venom, not letting fathers see their kids , blackmailing them about money threats of csa, why , cause they can...

using children as weapons .... bast*rds.

[Tiggie]

I had it the other way as a child. I was made to live with my Father and didn't have access to my Mum on and off for 6 years until I finally got old enough (11) and grew enough of a pair to say I wanted to live with her 

[Marino]

Bitter topic

[Bender]

5 minutes ago, Marino said:

Bitter topic

No just bitter posters  

[Six30]

Bitter.... no , it was the Stella .

[onesea]

41 minutes ago, Marino said:

Bitter topic

That is more the heart ache that this causes, I have fought my X wife for more than 1/2 the time I have known her.   The lies and fights, yes finances are separate to access legally practically they are not.

The heartache that this creates is unbearable, ask some one who has spent this morning writing to a solicitor to see his child closer than 2m within the next 5 months.  Even 10 years on the lies go on, this has been my life for 1/4 of it.

You don't know the temptation, to walk away rebuild else where.   When she is old enough we may well do that we will make sure we are still in reach.  Which is interesting as she says she doesn't want to live in this town.

There is so much to this and I urge anyone going through it to speak to those that have.  There is so much solicitors and legal advice does not give.

My caution about fathers rights groups, they are invariably run by people who have failed to make it work.  They have allot of good information about how the system works form someone for whom the system did not work.
Take there knowledge and use it for your case on the assumption the system will work, do not fight the system and go tooth and nail as they propose, go a more delicate route.

Solicitors are as bad, did you know on your initial hearings taking a solicitor is look down upon by magistrates?  Particularly if they do not have one.

CAFCAS are there own world, I challenged them on my own they said I needed a full hearing, so that is what I was pushing for. Then watched there face and my child mothers face and my x father in laws face when the magistrate on the second did everything he could in my favour. Only turning to the CAFCAS officer in saying that he was right if I wanted these 2 points I would have to have full hearing.   I struggled to keep a straight face.

A decade on that order is still the one in place even though it bares nor resemblance to the access that we have and is likely to remain.  So I have pushed to get it updated to how access has been on and off for the last 2 years.  Why?  Because I want to support my daughter in knowing she is allowed the access and it cannot be stopped by mum on a adhoc basis.

Edited January 25, 2021 by onesea

[S-Westerly]

So glad I never went through this nightmare although like most of us I know a few people who have. It's truly vile how some people react when a relationship implodes.

[Bender]

@onesea I didn't find any negativity in taking on a solicitor, it became a necessity as the ex resorted to one almost immediately funded by legal aid of course, I belive that's changed somewhat now.

 

The legal aid thing was a complete joke, we would receive letters from her solicitors on a weekly basis, from things like smoking in the house with the children present.

 

Non of us smoked, the only one who did was the ex.

 

Basically anything that took her whim they would write a letter, house to cold kids came back freezing, kids were allowed outside and they got wet, kids were fed too much, kids weren't fed enough, they were fed vegetables, honestly the list is both extensive and mental.

 

I paid for a good solicitor I would have had a barrister if I could have afforded one, although it cost an awful lot I belive it was worth it, she refused to respond to letters without any legal basis and kept intervention to what was needed and worked.

 

Similar to onesea when we got to court the judge listened to both legal sides, listened to cafcass report, I had to ask if I could add my thoughts, mum immediately turned to look at the wall true to form, her solicitor started to butt in and was promptly told it was his room and if he wanted to hear any more he would ask, I got to re cap everything I had done to try to resolve the situation, I avoided any digs at the ex and focused on the kids, told him exactly what I thought of cafcass.

 

He agreed completely with what I and my solicitor had said and we got everything that we requested, ex's solicitor tried again and was just told to shut it.

 

I even asked if I could have the kids at Xmas that year as it was rapidly approaching, and I hadn't seen them at all for the previous 2 and got another dig in at cafcass looney who had said children should never be away  from mam at all for any Xmas, I said that sort of reasoning was completely biased with no rational behind it what so ever, no problem I see no reason why not, and added it to the court order specifically with dates, he added that should any part of the order not be followed and we were back again it would be taken with a very dim view, he said this looking directly at the other solicitor.

 

To say I was happy was an understatement, even my solicitor said it was an unusualy good outcome but said most of it had come from my consistency, calmness and supporting the kids and the ex, that and she was sure judge had worked out she was a grade a twat.

 

Either that or she had bribed him.

[fullscreenaging]

My kids were used as a weapon against me. 
I took my ex to court twice so I could see them. The best outcome I achieved.......Every other Sunday for 6 hours. As I was paying an extortionate chunk of my wages to the CSA I couldn’t afford to run a car. 
Even though she had transport she refused to either pick up or drop the kids off. She lived around 7 miles away. She wouldn’t let me leave my push bike at hers. So I had to walk to pick them up and drop them off. It was the kids I felt sorry for. Sometimes I could afford to get the bus in the winter, but it was great in the summer stopping off at the park in the way to see the grandparents. 
I could never afford to but them many gifts for Xmas and birthdays but I did my best. 
I moved back in with my Mum for a while after splitting up and my kids always wanted to take the toys and games I bought them home to play with. I was always reluctant to let them as every time I allowed this the item would end up being broken by their half brother (she had married)

So I was in a no win situation. They used to play up if I said they couldn’t take them home and if I allowed it, they got broken. I was the bad man many times...

My angle on the situation was to have as much quality time as I could with them though. 

Seeing my kids for 6 hours a fortnight when then were young was heartbreaking. (I left their mother when my son was 1 and my daughter was 4. I don’t want to go into too much detail but when my daughter remembers trying to stop her mother attacking me with a knife on more than one occasion....I tried to make it work, for the kids sake....The thing is, after talking to my kids now they are adults, they had a shit life with her as their mother). I couldn’t  get a proper bond with them and I was fighting a losing battle having any influence in their lives. 

Then be when the kids hit their teenage years I hardly saw them as they obviously wanted to be out with their mate and parents aren’t cool. 
After about 15 years I finally Persuaded her to get the CSA off my back and paid her directly. I kept a book and made her sign for the payments. Only because she wasn’t happy with what the CSA said I had to pay having changed jobs. I offered to pay her a bit more then they said, so she snapped my hand off. 
The CSA payment fiasco financially crippled me. 
My daughter then left school and went to college so I was very happy to tell my ex that I would hand my daughter her maintenance personally. Then it was my sons turn. Years later though, my daughter told me that my ex used to make my son take her to the pub to spend the maintenance I was giving him. That’s the sort of woman she is and I’m relieved, happy and all the other words that I don’t ever have to f**king speak to the woman again now my kids have grown up and left home. 

I’ve been trying to build a decent relationship with my kids for years and years now but their minds have been badly poisoned and I don’t feel I have achieved that yet. When the ex got married the kids were only 3 and 6 she promptly changed their name. ( my name on the birth certificate, but we never married) Which I tried to fight via solicitor, but lost.  As soon as that happened they were not allowed to call me Dad. 
They do tell me they have very good memories of being with me when they were little. So I think I did OK. 

Anyway, I have two grandkids now. One from each and things are good....apart from the current situation. 
 

Some of that may not make much sense, but it was good to get off my chest. 


 

[Tiggie]

22 minutes ago, fullscreenaging said:

As soon as that happened they were not allowed to call me Dad. 

 

I had the same thing as a child. Was only allowed to refer to my Mum as Judith and was told I had to call my stepmother Mum as "she is your Mum now not that woman"

 

Its F*cking ridiculous 

 

[onesea]

3 hours ago, Tiggie said:

My Wife's Biological Dad (The man she thought of as her Dad was her Mums second husband, he brought her up from age 11) apparently kept himself on the dole for years out of spite to make sure he didn't have to pay child support!!

 

Edit: not "apparently" as he has told me first hand thats what he did!!

With the CMS you still have to pay on the dole just the amount is piffling the calculator is there:. 
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance
The amount is not much however as your income is low.

I have no fear of the CMS they are an improvement on the CSA, as I understand however there are floors:

• Once under there banner I don't think you can escape, any over payment is considered voluntary and cannot be looked back on so if you double pay one month your still expected to pay the next,
• There is no middle ground even in joint access who ever gets 1 day more (remember 365 days a year) has to maintenance,
• Maintenance is calculated on ALL income including expenses and I think even your pension.  This is however only brought on by people going self employed and paying themselves in expenses/ pension.
• One word for anyone going into this, your review date is unchangeable (mine is near enough my birthday, yes that manipulated by someone). 
• No matter if your paying maintenance as by court order of not after 6 months (i think) the resident parent can put you under the CMS.

You can think your getting a clean break hand over the house and all your worldly belongings, get it signed of and then have the CMS on you for money.  My advice as soon as it goes acrimonious use them or write your finances in line with it.

There is also a difference between maintenance paid to mum and child, the CMS sort child, mother is decided between solicitors/ court.

For me the CMS have stopped me having to send copies of accounts to her for each year and then getting them scrutinised by my X-father in law.  They have reduced the stress and conflict.

Luckily I never fell under the banner of the CSA, although she tried,  by all accounts where not fit for purpose.

 @fullscreenaging @Tiggie my partner will not allow my daughter to call her mum (daughter does though to wind her up).  I have had to accept I am the second dad, I don't know how I am referred to at mums. Here her mum is her mum or her name there is no distinction.
Then I think still  insists on being called a particular version of "mum" "mummy" or "mother" by her children 

A mother should not change a child's name without the fathers permission how well this is adhered to I don't know.  Schools are terrible for dropping names and changing them without permission .   These matters can and should be clamped down on by authorities, if not there is no point having the law.

When my daughter and mum asked me to change her name I told her at 12 she could make that decision.  At 12 I asked her again and she said no.