jedibiker Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 22 minutes ago, WD40 said: To me that sounds like top end noise. Camshaft/valves or cam chain. Maybe the leak has caused a loss of oil pressure at the exhaust camshaft. If you look at the picture. I think you've drilled into where the circle is, where the head stud and nut are recessed into the cam journal. Normally oil collects around there and builds oil pressure for the camshaft to turn on. If your drilled through and it's leaking oil out from around that nut it could be loosing oil pressure in the journal where the cam rotates that could be causing the top end noise you're hearing. Im thinking its something like that, although when I first assembled i didnt lose oil there as sealed it but the nut wasnt holding torque so had to helicoil it.. is that the top looking down? if so i drilled far side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, WD40 said: To me that sounds like top end noise. Camshaft/valves or cam chain. Maybe the leak has caused a loss of oil pressure at the exhaust camshaft. If you look at the picture. I think you've drilled into where the circle is, where the head stud and nut are recessed into the cam journal. Normally oil collects around there and builds oil pressure for the camshaft to turn on. If your drilled through and it's leaking oil out from around that nut it could be loosing oil pressure in the journal where the cam rotates that could be causing the top end noise you're hearing. I'll go with that too . This isn't a blowing exhaust , that's just wishful thinking I'm afraid . It's not the camchain because that would be much higher pitched . It's got to be a cam lobe striking something . I'm not being facetious when I suggest you start searching for a cylinder head . If you have struck oil , you must have drilled into the cam gallery and the only thing moving in there is camshafts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Right now I'd be joining this FB group and putting the word out that I need a cylinder head . https://www.facebook.com/groups/897258490288027/?ref=share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, fastbob said: I'll go with that too . This isn't a blowing exhaust , that's just wishful thinking I'm afraid . It's not the camchain because that would be much higher pitched . It's got to be a cam lobe striking something . I'm not being facetious when I suggest you start searching for a cylinder head . If you have struck oil , you must have drilled into the cam gallery and the only thing moving in there is camshafts . the stud backs onto the head bolt, so can only have gone into that chamber. But agree there is a relationship between the drill mistake and the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 joined the group cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 hours ago, WD40 said: To me that sounds like top end noise. Camshaft/valves or cam chain. Maybe the leak has caused a loss of oil pressure at the exhaust camshaft Thats exactly what I was just about to say! If the leak is losing pressure and its on hydraulic lifters then that may well be it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD40 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Yeah that's the top of the engine looking down. The bottom of the picture is the front of the engine where the exhaust cam is. The top of the picture is the back of the engine where the intake cam is. The oil feed for the top end is a metal pipe bolted to the front of the engine. The arrow points to where the metal pipe is bolted. Oil from the bottom end goes up through the metal pipe into the top of the engine. It then goes through a passage to both camshafts. The red line shows this passage. The oil comes up where the red dots are. The camshafts have holes in them and are hollow so the oil fills the camshafts. It comes out holes in the camshaft to lube all the journals. You can see the holes in the camshafts in this picture https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XbwAAOSw-jFaDYdG/s-l1600.jpg The oil then leaks out from around the journals to the area around the valve buckets. This lubes the area around the buckets. It then flows back down to the bottom of the engine. The blue arrows. If oil was leaking out of where you drilled instead of staying around the journal and around the valve buckets you could be losing oil pressure around the exhaust cam and losing the oil that should be around the valve buckets causing the top end noise you're hearing. It's just a theory, it could be wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Stu said: Thats exactly what I was just about to say! If the leak is losing pressure and its on hydraulic lifters then that may well be it! I don't think it's got hydraulic tappets Looks like cams acting directly on under bucket shims . ( If anyone read this before I edited it , please try to un see what I wrote . ) Edited March 4, 2021 by fastbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD40 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, fastbob said: I don't think it's got hydraulic tappets * Looks like cams acting directly on under bucket shims . HOWEVER , I've just realised that the camshaft sprockets are on the ENDS of the camshafts not in the middle like I'm more used to . Could this be the source of the rasping sound ? * More research required . Yeah you're right they are regular bucket and shim valves not hydraulic ones. The camshaft sprocket is on the middle of the camshaft and down the centre of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, WD40 said: Yeah you're right they are regular bucket and shim valves not hydraulic ones. The camshaft sprocket is on the middle of the camshaft and down the centre of the engine. I know , I've edited my post but not quickly enough . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 the thing is, it made this sound last time and that stud didnt leak at that time as the seal held although wouldnt torque up. so helicoiled it and the seal hasnt held. maybe the coil lets oil seep around it. a few said the cam chain tensioner could have got stuck, but unless welding would cause it then i doubt it. the area i drilled into is where the head stud runs and its not even meant to have much or any oil flow. tough one this i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeper96 Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 In times like this it’s sometimes better to just get things stripped down and have a look and see what the problem is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 The only way to end this speculation is to strip out the top end including the exhaust camshaft , clean out all the oil and examine the parts . I cannot imagine how an oil leak is responsible for that clacking noise . That's metal on metal contact oil or no oil . If you think the camchain tensioner is stuck , remove it and examine it . Interesting as this may be , I don't think everyone's opinions including my own are actually serving much purpose here . What's done is done and there aren't going to be any solutions until the top end is laid out on a work bench . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Keeper96 said: In times like this it’s sometimes better to just get things stripped down and have a look and see what the problem is. Ha ha , that's the short version of what I have just written . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 I do agree. Haynes manual ordered. Ive held off as just looking here and there means new gaskets at 30-40 quid a go. But at this point I cant see much other options than getting bits off. I may get the head off too if its not obvious from getting rocker cover off. Oil must be getting pumped somewhere as its getting to the stud I drilled once running, but i know that doesn't mean its getting everywhere it needs to be. Going to be a bumpy ride this one. So you may get some interesting photos as I go, which I hope will help someone else one day. (like just take it to a garage and dont buy bikes that need exhaust off to change oil filter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, jedibiker said: I do agree. Haynes manual ordered. Ive held off as just looking here and there means new gaskets at 30-40 quid a go. But at this point I cant see much other options than getting bits off. I may get the head off too if its not obvious from getting rocker cover off. Oil must be getting pumped somewhere as its getting to the stud I drilled once running, but i know that doesn't mean its getting everywhere it needs to be. Going to be a bumpy ride this one. So you may get some interesting photos as I go, which I hope will help someone else one day. (like just take it to a garage and dont buy bikes that need exhaust off to change oil filter) Things starting to make sense now are they ? Edited March 5, 2021 by fastbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James in Brum Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Jedi I am learning so much from following this thread. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbob Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, James in Brum said: Jedi I am learning so much from following this thread. Thanks What , like when you f**k up your bike keep it to yourself and don't ask a bunch of dickheads for their opinion . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, fastbob said: Things starting to make sense now are they Show off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, James in Brum said: Jedi I am learning so much from following this thread. Thanks glad it helps. if i end up stripping the engine il photo or video it, more so to remember where stuff goes lol but will share 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James in Brum Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I want to get on with my bike but MrsInBrum is not well so will have to wait until tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, James in Brum said: I want to get on with my bike but MrsInBrum is not well so will have to wait until tomorrow. what are you doing to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Have you actually looked into the rocker cover . Just wondering if where you drilled to far it hasn't ' blown' part of the casing and this is rattling around or worse still even into a exhaust port and through valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedibiker Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, TimR said: Have you actually looked into the rocker cover . Just wondering if where you drilled to far it hasn't ' blown' part of the casing and this is rattling around or worse still even into a exhaust port and through valve Im going too now. But just looking costs about £40 for a gasket so tried to hold off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James in Brum Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 hour ago, jedibiker said: what are you doing to it? I shattered by sump and bent my exhaust. Have replaced the sump now I need to put my new second hand exhaust on. Put it all back together and fill with oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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