How many accessories can the bike battery power?

[Throttled]

I am planning a winter tour, so will be riding for hours on end with Oxford heated grips, a Garmin sat nav that are both hard-wired to the battery and the 12v power socket recharging a power pack or my mobile in the tank bag.

 

Can the battery take that?

 

 

[Stu]

It's not whether the battery can take it but more if the charging system can cope 

 

The sat nav and phone will take next to nothing but the grips would be the higher drain

 

Your bike should more than cope with that 

[Tiggie]

That doesn't sound excessive at all to me. The heated grips will use the most power out of the 3 but I still think you'll be alright.

 

Worst comes to the worst you can always bump start it!!  

[Throttled]

11 minutes ago, Tiggie said:

That doesn't sound excessive at all to me. The heated grips will use the most power out of the 3 but I still think you'll be alright.

 

Worst comes to the worst you can always bump start it!!  

 

The power pack I plan to take can jump start a car, so it should be OK.

[manxie49]

As Stu said, it depends on how good your charging system is.   I have sat nav,  Spot lights, heated grips, Innov camera, datatool tracker and mobile phone, all hard wired into the bike.  Touch wood, I've never had any problems,  heated grips are used all the time during the winter months as are the spot lights.  Datatool is always live and Camera is always live when the ignition is on.  I think you should be fine.

[bonio]

It's worth checking the current drawn by the heated grips and the power bank. 

[onesea]

My answer is it depends what current the stator kicks out.

 

Standard solution on a Trophy is to fit voltmeter. Although that's more to check battery has the kick to start without knackering the sprag clutch.

 

My check would be put volt meter across battery. See what voltage you get:

1) engine off, 12.4 ish

2) engine running without extra, 14 plus I would expect

3) engine running with all load on max, flat phone, flat battery pack, heated grips 100%, sat nav, full beam, running lights etc

 

• I would like 13+volts under load
• However if voltage at 1 is less than at 3 all is good.
• If you need to give her some Revs up to get a higher voltage then at idle your not charging.
• If voltage is dropping fast at idle  you have an issue.

You can then play with the loads and see what had biggest effect.

 

One caution with USB charging some connections do not supply the amps that modern devices like.  This results in slower than expected charging.  My battery pack is guilty in this department. 

 

I try to find accommodation I can charge my battery pack overnight. Some campsites or other campers with electric hookups are often happy to help.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by onesea

[Pie man]

I'd have thought it would be OK. I had heated grips, heated clothing, heated seats, sat nav and 2 aux charging points.  

[Bender]

As long as battery bank is just getting topped up it should be fine

[Stu]

3 hours ago, onesea said:

My answer is it depends what current the stator kicks out.

 

Standard solution on a Trophy is to fit voltmeter. Although that's more to check battery has the kick to start without knackering the sprag clutch.

 

My check would be put volt meter across battery. See what voltage you get:

1) engine off, 12.4 ish

2) engine running without extra, 14 plus I would expect

3) engine running with all load on max, flat phone, flat battery pack, heated grips 100%, sat nav, full beam, running lights etc

 

• I would like 13+volts under load
• However if voltage at 1 is less than at 3 all is good.
• If you need to give her some Revs up to get a higher voltage then at idle your not charging.
• If voltage is dropping fast at idle  you have an issue.

You can then play with the loads and see what had biggest effect.

 

One caution with USB charging some connections do not supply the amps that modern devices like.  This results in shower than expected charging.  My battery pack is guilty in this department. 

 

I try to find accommodation I can charge it overnight. Some campsites or other campers are happy to do this for you.

 

 

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that! 

 

It's not about the volts it's actually all about the amps that the charging system kicks out 

 

You can have the right voltage but not the amperage to keep the battery charged 

 

Heated grips sat navs and USB chargers are the most common fitted items and I would be shocked I anything larger than a 125 struggled with these fitted 

 

There is scooters running around with these fitted with no issues 

[onesea]

37 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that! 

 

It's not about the volts it's actually all about the amps that the charging system kicks out 

 

You can have the right voltage but not the amperage to keep the battery charged 

 

Heated grips sat navs and USB chargers are the most common fitted items and I would be shocked I anything larger than a 125 struggled with these fitted 

 

There is scooters running around with these fitted with no issues 

Agree, I am no electrician and maybe over simplifying.

 

There is relationship between volts and current.

 

As I understand you test if a battery is being charged or it’s state by seeing what the voltage is on the battery.  This does not however give the amps available just the charge of the battery*.

 

If the accessories are taking all the current the voltage on the battery will not rise?  You could further test it by turning on all accessories without the engine running and watch the voltage drop.
 

This is all at idle and when the revs go up the stator should create more current so there is margin of safety you don’t normally ride at idle.

 

Another option is to google the size of stator your bike if you can find it.

Edited December 27, 2022 by onesea
*Hence a battery can have good voltage but not have the current to turn over the engine.

[bonio]

It's not the battery, it's the stator you need to think about. And it's not volts, its amps that are the killer. 

The problem comes if the current drawn your stuff adds up to more than the current the stator can provide. If this is the case and you're lucky, the current deficit will be made up by the battery. The battery will go flat and when you next stop you won't be able to start. But if this is the case and you're unlucky, the stator will try harder and harder to produced meet the demand for amps and it will burn its little coils out. 

 

You need to know how much current in amps the stator can deliver. Should be in the handbook, but if not then a forum somewhere. Then tot up the amps drawn by the headlamps on full beam + rear lamp + grips + power pack/mobile*. If you don't know the amps, then take the power rating (in watts) and divide by 14. If the stator can deliver what's needed, then you're ok. If not, you still might be able to swing it by juggling your accessories, e.g. by only having the grips on low if you're charging the power pack. Or if not, you might be able to swap the headlamp bulbs for LEDs.

 

*The sat nav is probably too small to bother about, and the brake lights and indicators aren't on long enough to make a difference (because the electric can overdeliver amps for short periods)

Some bikes use some clever circuitry to cap the current available through a USB port at 1A or 2A - check in your handbook; if this is the case with yours, this will be the maximum current the power pack can draw, no matter what it would draw if it were connected to a mains transformer. 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by bonio
for euphony

[Guest]

No idea but I'm reminded of homer Simpson

[Tinkicker]

On 27/12/2022 at 16:19, onesea said:

My answer is it depends what current the stator kicks out.

 

Standard solution on a Trophy is to fit voltmeter. Although that's more to check battery has the kick to start without knackering the sprag clutch.

 

My check would be put volt meter across battery. See what voltage you get:

1) engine off, 12.4 ish

2) engine running without extra, 14 plus I would expect

3) engine running with all load on max, flat phone, flat battery pack, heated grips 100%, sat nav, full beam, running lights etc

 

• I would like 13+volts under load
• However if voltage at 1 is less than at 3 all is good.
• If you need to give her some Revs up to get a higher voltage then at idle your not charging.
• If voltage is dropping fast at idle  you have an issue.

You can then play with the loads and see what had biggest effect.

 

One caution with USB charging some connections do not supply the amps that modern devices like.  This results in slower than expected charging.  My battery pack is guilty in this department. 

 

I try to find accommodation I can charge my battery pack overnight. Some campsites or other campers with electric hookups are often happy to help.

 

 

Be aware that a crankshaft direct mounted generator as found on most bikes will not produce sufficient voltage for charging under load until the rpm reaches somewhere between 1500 and 2000 rpm.  It cannot and will not charge at low idle speeds.

That is why car alternator pulleys are about 3x smaller than the crank pulley.  It ups the gear ratio and speed at the alternator pulley by a factor of 3x crank speed and allows stable charging at idle.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Tinkicker

[Stu]

@Throttled apparently the Versys has more than enough power 

 

24 amps & 14 volts @ 5000 rpm. 24 x 14 = 336 Watts Watts / Volts = Amps Amps x Volts = Watts

 

Taken from here https://www.kawasakiversys.com/threads/alternator-output.1482/

[fullscreenaging]

That’s for 650. iirc Throttled has the 1000.  

 

I still think it’ll be fine. I run heated grips, innov camera, Sat nag and have my phone plugged into the power port (that I assume is in your VK1) permanently so I can listen to my playlists without the battery dying. I also swap the phone out to charge the comma system on the move should that die at any point on my trip. 
 

EDIT: found this. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by fullscreenaging

[Throttled]

The Oxford heated grips apparently max out at 4 amps, when on. The power pack I have is the Halfords advanced lithium jump starter, which can put out 300 amps, but I cannot find out how many amps it uses to recharge. The Garmin Zumo mount draws 1 milliamp, I cannot find out how much the actual sat nav uses.

[Stu]

@Throttled Which zumo is it? 

 

and does the jump starter not have a wall plug with the output stated on it? 

[Throttled]

Garmin Zumo 346 GPS and the jump starter charges via a USB cable, no wall plug came with it. It states it takes 3 hours to charge and it is a 13,000mAh battery.

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, Throttled said:

Garmin Zumo 346 GPS and the jump starter charges via a USB cable, no wall plug came with it. It states it takes 3 hours to charge and it is a 13,000mAh battery.

 

In that case you are talking about 2.1 amps as thats usually what your usb will be limited to anyway 

 

The zumo will be 1.5A max 

[Throttled]

Thanks for that.

[bonio]

29A is a shit load quite a lot. I think you're fine.