White Lines

[MikeHorton]

1 hour ago, Joe85 said:

I believe they Highway Code refers to these as a ‘should not’ rather than a ‘must not’ or something to that effect.
 

They make for messy and protracted insurance claims, too.

Some highway code terms are grey areas they should cover terninology at the rear of the book like "necessary" all these terms are open to interpretation which doesn't help. If in doubt don't is my way or looking at it. 

[MikeHorton]

2 hours ago, manxie49 said:

I did my IAM training with a Police instructor,  we discussed this sort of thing.  So long as it isn't a solid white line then there's no issue.  So long as it's safe and legal to do so you can use all of the road to give you better forward vision through bends.  Whilst it may look to some people that you're riding is "all over the road" and dodgy, it actually makes your ride safer, and quicker.

I was following a police car last autumn, nice day and light traffic on the twisty roads. Said plod pulled over for me to overtake safely which was a bonus we had both been straightening out the curves where safe. I'll miss midweek daytime rides out now I'm a monday to Friday worker

[Bender]

It's a road, you can use all of it if it's safe and legal to it, if you hit something or have an accident on the wrong side of the road it's going to be more your fault than it would be if you stuck to your side of the road. 

 

Life is full of risks  

[Davidtav]

So I have had a good look again at Roadcraft. Mine is probably the current edition. Definitely no mention of offsiding. And google searches seem to suggest that this is something no longer recommended other than for emergency services. … I have found this subject interesting though. I cannot really envisage a situation where I would want or feel it beneficial … but I recognise that it is a legitimate and legal technique 

[bonio]

I think the "no longer recommended except for emergency services" bit must be a bit of googledegook. I was doing this in my last test back in October and the tester was fine with it. 10 years ago, though, I was getting corrected for it.

Edited January 11, 2023 by bonio

[Bender]

24 minutes ago, bonio said:

I think the "no longer recommended except for emergency services" bit must be a bit of googledegook. I was doing this in my last test back in October and the tester was fine with it. 10 years ago, though, I was getting corrected for it.

I was taught not that long ago, straight line  roundabouts when empty and activity use the road as req  

[Davidtav]

29 minutes ago, bonio said:

I think the "no longer recommended except for emergency services" bit must be a bit of googledegook. I was doing this in my last test back in October and the tester was fine with it. 10 years ago, though, I was getting corrected for it.

Here is one of the things that popped up on Google. I’m honestly not trying to have an argument. I have found this subject interesting 

https://www.motorcycledirect.co.uk/motorcycle-direct-club/blog-069-dont-stray-offside.php

[onesea]

27 minutes ago, Davidtav said:

Here is one of the things that popped up on Google. I’m honestly not trying to have an argument. I have found this subject interesting 

https://www.motorcycledirect.co.uk/motorcycle-direct-club/blog-069-dont-stray-offside.php

If your not confident don’t do it, you have to be confident in returning to a safe position on your side of the road in ample time.

Hence it’s not something to do when your knee down hammering it on the edge (keep that for the track IMHO).
 

It’s something to be done when you are making progress in a safe controlled manner.  It’s about seeing and been seen giving good time to make safe adjustments to your road position.

However it can allow more time to see unexpected hazards, or assess an up coming overtake.

 

I would not call it off siding that to me indicates using the whole of the opposite carriage way.  Many times just crossing the central line can make appreciable difference.

[Bender]

2 hours ago, Davidtav said:

Here is one of the things that popped up on Google. I’m honestly not trying to have an argument. I have found this subject interesting 

https://www.motorcycledirect.co.uk/motorcycle-direct-club/blog-069-dont-stray-offside.php

Which boils down to what I said, in the event of an accident it's going to lean significantly towards you for blame. 

 

If your not happy doing it don't, it's something I shall continue with. 

[MikeHorton]

3 hours ago, Davidtav said:

So I have had a good look again at Roadcraft. Mine is probably the current edition. Definitely no mention of offsiding. And google searches seem to suggest that this is something no longer recommended other than for emergency services. … I have found this subject interesting though. I cannot really envisage a situation where I would want or feel it beneficial … but I recognise that it is a legitimate and legal technique 

As said if your not happy to do it you don't have to. If its a broken white line you can cross it if safe. Roadcraft may not show this as its dependent on safety. If you consider overtaking and look at the pics in roadcraft you should see the overtaking vehicle is well over the other side of the carriageway. Take into account hatched markings in the centre of the road people routinely enter these when you really shouldn't. 

If you don't feel it's right don't do it. Maybe consider a bike safe course, Rospa or IAM anything like will hopefully give you the skills to do the right thing on the road with confidence. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by MikeHorton

[Bender]

6 minutes ago, MikeHorton said:

As said if your not happy to do it you don't have to. If its a broken white line you can cross it if safe. Roadcraft may not show this as its dependent on safety. If you consider ovwrtaking and look at the pics in roadcraft you should see the overtaking vehicle is well over the other side of the carriageway. Take into account hatched markings in the centre of the road people routinely enter these when you really shouldn't. 

If you don't feel it's right don't do it. Maybe consider a bike safe course, Rospa or IAM anything like will hopefully give you the skills to do the right thing on the road with confidence. 

Unless it's got a solid white lines it's legal to enter it, if not it will have solid lines, I will happily overtake on them problem is the crap that's usually in them. 

 

 

It all depends on where and what they are protecting the red areas are just to highlight its a risk, same as center line if you use said area and there's an incident blame is firmly in your direction. 

 

Common sense and judgment is required. 

[MikeHorton]

Just now, Bender said:

Unless it's got a solid white lines it's legal to enter it, if not it will have solid lines, I will happily overtake on them problem is the crap that's usually in them. 

 

 

It all depends on where and what they are protecting the red areas are just to highlight its a risk, same as center line if you use said area and there's an incident blame is firmly in your direction. 

 

Common sense and judgment is required. 

Yes with you on the common sense but need to check for hazards sometimes junctions or other hazards on hatchings. Even if dotted should only enter if necessary. In usual legal terms there is no definition of necessary another example of fine 99% of the time in the event of a dink it maybe an issue. I wish there was a glossary of terms but as usual it's all grey areas which doesn't help us road users. 

[Bender]

That's why I said what they are protecting, over taking a long line of traffic on hatches leading to a turn etc, they all as far as I've seen have solid lines to stop people from running into someone using it to turn,  every move and decision you make is only valid for that moment, the onus is on the one at the helm. 

[bud]

4 hours ago, Bender said:

I was taught not that long ago, straight line  roundabouts when empty and activity use the road as req  

They still say straight line roundabouts if it's safe. Especially in bad weather. You don't want to be leaning over further than needed in icy conditions.

[bonio]

The was a law case some years back following an accident where a guy on a bike was hit by an oncoming vehicle. Might have been a van. The biker was injured, and the case came to law to settle the liability. The thing that made the case memorable was that although the vehicle had come over the (broken) white line onto the biker's side of the road, the biker was found to be partially liable, and had to bear a part of the costs, because he had taken up a position near the white line - even though he hadn't actually crossed it. The biker had to admit in court that it would have been safer if he'd stayed in the centre of his lane.

 

So when it comes to the law, you're liable if you do something that compromises safety, and this regard it doesn't matter much which side of the line you are. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by bonio

[onesea]

1 hour ago, bonio said:

The was a law case some years back following an accident where a guy on a bike was hit by an oncoming vehicle. Might have been a van. The biker was injured, and the case came to law to settle the liability. The thing that made the case memorable was that although the vehicle had come over the (broken) white line onto the biker's side of the road, the biker was found to be partially liable, and had to bear a part of the costs, because he had taken up a position near the white line - even though he hadn't actually crossed it. The biker had to admit in court that it would have been safer if he'd stayed in the centre of his lane.

 

So when it comes to the law, you're liable if you do something that compromises safety, and this regard it doesn't matter much which side of the line you are. 

Sadly that sounds like lawyers playing games not real safety.

 

I generally avoid the "Command Position" in the middle of my  carriageway.  It's where the cars flick all the loose stones, where slime forms reducing grip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billy sugger]

I ride 2 thirds of the way from the kerb, and generally straighten out roundabouts if there is no other traffic on it or behind me, especially if there is more than one lane onto it from my direction 

[manxie49]

On 10/01/2023 at 14:19, MikeHorton said:

I was following a police car last autumn, nice day and light traffic on the twisty roads. Said plod pulled over for me to overtake safely which was a bonus we had both been straightening out the curves where safe. I'll miss midweek daytime rides out now I'm a monday to Friday worker

I hated Monday to Friday working,  midweek rides are always better, perks of working shifts.

[S-Westerly]

5 hours ago, manxie49 said:

I hated Monday to Friday working,  midweek rides are always better, perks of working shifts.

One of the perks of being on leave is I can do stuff when most poor sods are at work. All the old farts tend to be out though but as I now qualify as one of those it's not like I can complain.  Of course when I'm away I can do naff all so.....

[CB999]

31 minutes ago, S-Westerly said:

One of the perks of being on leave is I can do stuff when most poor sods are at work. All the old farts tend to be out though but as I now qualify as one of those it's not like I can complain.  Of course when I'm away I can do naff all so.....

us old folks keep the cafe’s going during the quiet midweek period

[daveinlim]

On 09/01/2023 at 19:43, Fiddlesticks said:

I've quite happily filtered past traffic including a police car on a hatched area with a broken white line like this one.

 

No issues, as long as it's safe.

 

Crossing a solid line is a different story.

 

On my commute when traffic is stopped, I've been filtering down this type of road marking. I was always only 90% sure it was legal as the lines are not solid. I've filtered past a few police cars and they never did anything so just assumed it is ok. Happy now someone has confirmed it's alright 

[bonio]

To be fair, I don't think it's 100% clear. IIRC, the Highway Code says you should only enter the hatched area if it's necessary. So the thinking is that of course it's necessary to enter the hatched area if you want to overtake or filter.

[MikeHorton]

2 hours ago, bonio said:

To be fair, I don't think it's 100% clear. IIRC, the Highway Code says you should only enter the hatched area if it's necessary. So the thinking is that of course it's necessary to enter the hatched area if you want to overtake or filter.

Necessary to ride quicker too lol 

[Bender]

8 hours ago, daveinlim said:

 

On my commute when traffic is stopped, I've been filtering down this type of road marking. I was always only 90% sure it was legal as the lines are not solid. I've filtered past a few police cars and they never did anything so just assumed it is ok. Happy now someone has confirmed it's alright 

Yup fair game  

[Davidtav]

Yeah. I will filter past traffic. But I won’t cross the central line before a bend. I accept it’s probably legal. But not for me