Welsh Speed Limits

[manxie49]

Just after some advice.  Is there anyone here from Wales, or anyone who has recently been to Wales since the new speed limits were introduced??  A group of us have been planning a trip for next spring, Wales was to be our destination for a week.  We all met last night for a couple of beers and now the consensus is to go elsewhere.   We've all read the crap on the MSM, and heard all the horror stories about how draconian it's become, but the truth is, having not been recently, we don't know.  I personally enjoy riding in Wales, but have no idea how much of an actual pain in the arse these new laws have become, I certainly don't want to be riding round everywhere in 1st and 2nd gear.  Input from anyone who's there or who has recently been would be a help.  Cheers.

[Bender]

The problem with 20mph is you get some sitting at 16ish which is enough to make you want to scream.......

 

The A9 in Scotland is average and you get lines of folk sitting behind someone doing 10mph under the limit and no one will overtake out of fear, I get the idea but mostly it's the idiots that make it worse.

[Gerontious]

Its no different to where I live. or where I go to every September in Germany.

 

20mph limits are normal. and of zero concern to me. This is relevant to cities, towns and some villages (probably)

 

If you are going to Wales to visit a city then you will be riding at 20mph. but once you leave that city...

[manxie49]

1 hour ago, Bender said:

The problem with 20mph is you get some sitting at 16ish which is enough to make you want to scream.......

 

The A9 in Scotland is average and you get lines of folk sitting behind someone doing 10mph under the limit and no one will overtake out of fear, I get the idea but mostly it's the idiots that make it worse.

Yes, see that a lot here in the 20mph zones, big tailbacks behind someone who refuses to go faster than 10mph.  If I had any hair it would have been ripped out by now 

[Bender]

1 hour ago, Gerontious said:

Its no different to where I live. or where I go to every September in Germany.

 

20mph limits are normal. and of zero concern to me. This is relevant to cities, towns and some villages (probably)

 

If you are going to Wales to visit a city then you will be riding at 20mph. but once you leave that city...

I believe Wales has inflicted some low speed limits on some of the more scenic routes too.

[Gerontious]

23 minutes ago, Bender said:

I believe Wales has inflicted some low speed limits on some of the more scenic routes too.

 

I don't believe that at all. its certainly not what the welsh government are saying. but, we'll see. if its true then the truth will out.

 

There is a map. but, I don't have the time or inclination to pore over it aside from Gwynedd, but only because thats where my family live. Hardly affected. its mostly down south. or at least thats where its most concentrated, but thats where most of the population live.

 

https://datamap.gov.wales/maps/roads-affected-by-changes-to-the-speed-limit-on-re/

[Bender]

The 20 is a blanket  unless a road has an exemption, I can't remember which pass it was but it now has 30 and 40 restrictions, I'm sure they've downgraded 70 to 60 on some of the motorway/ dual carriageway in the name of the environment.

 

I'm sure they put a statement out saying they are first country in the world to blanket 20mph where vehicles and pedestrians mingle.

 

Time will tell how it goes as there will be plenty of feedback soon enough, I've got a trip there in Dec which is not optional if  things go to plan, will see first hand.

[Pie man]

I see they have introduced new traffic police too

 

[manxie49]

2 hours ago, Bender said:

The 20 is a blanket  unless a road has an exemption, I can't remember which pass it was but it now has 30 and 40 restrictions, I'm sure they've downgraded 70 to 60 on some of the motorway/ dual carriageway in the name of the environment.

 

I'm sure they put a statement out saying they are first country in the world to blanket 20mph where vehicles and pedestrians mingle.

 

Time will tell how it goes as there will be plenty of feedback soon enough, I've got a trip there in Dec which is not optional if  things go to plan, will see first hand.

I think the pass you're talking about was the Horseshoe pass, used to be a popular biker friendly cafe up there, can't remember what it's called?  I think they reduced the limit to 40mph?

[Bender]

20 minutes ago, manxie49 said:

I think the pass you're talking about was the Horseshoe pass, used to be a popular biker friendly cafe up there, can't remember what it's called?  I think they reduced the limit to 40mph?

Might have been, but they were bemoaning it going down from 40 to 30 on some sections.

[Pie man]

The cafe is the Ponderosa, from my neck of the woods it is an average 50 upto the cafe and down to the Rhug, not sure of the road from Llangollen upto the cafe tho

[Blade929]

8 hours ago, manxie49 said:

Just after some advice.  Is there anyone here from Wales, or anyone who has recently been to Wales since the new speed limits were introduced??  A group of us have been planning a trip for next spring, Wales was to be our destination for a week.  We all met last night for a couple of beers and now the consensus is to go elsewhere.   We've all read the crap on the MSM, and heard all the horror stories about how draconian it's become, but the truth is, having not been recently, we don't know.  I personally enjoy riding in Wales, but have no idea how much of an actual pain in the arse these new laws have become, I certainly don't want to be riding round everywhere in 1st and 2nd gear.  Input from anyone who's there or who has recently been would be a help.  Cheers.

Hi, basically anywhere that was a 30mph limit is now 20mph, only a pain when going through towns, built up areas etc. Main roads, in most cases are unchanged other than those that have already had 30mph limits through built up areas enroute. As a note areas with street lights 200 metres (or less) apart are now 20mph.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

The Horseshoe Pass is indeed 40 now. The road from the top of the Pass down to Corwen is a 50mph average. There are plenty of roads still at NSL. It's shame about the Horseshoe Pass as that seems a bit silly but in general the 50mph average zones seem to keep traffic flowing quite well without nobs doing silly things. On a bike you can easily overtake and stayt within the average speed limit.

 

I'm off to Prestatyn today to pick up a boat trailer so I suspect I'll be trundlign through 20mph zones. I will see how it works out.

[Capt Sisko]

I went out for bimble last Saturday, Shrewsbury, Barmouth, Snowdonia and back, and frankly the new speed limits made sod all difference to the enjoyment of the ride. 60s were still 60; 50s still 50 and 40s still 40. Sure, there were some 20s in stupid places, but many of the villages I rode through had left their 30mph signs as they were, with new 20mph ones just for the centre of the village. I didn't think that was unreasonable. There were some however that had just done a straight swap. I can live with that as long as the run into the village isn't too long, but some of these strung together and went on for well after you'd left the last house. That was frustrating.

 

I would imagine the situation is different in the bigger towns & cities and no one is ever going to say miles & miles of 20mph is fun, but miles & miles of 30mph wasn't fun either, but you did it. As the OP said, there's a lot of crap being spouted off on FB & forums, reading them you'd think the 20mph speed limit started at the border and had been applied to every single road everywhere. It hasn't and sure there are going to be times when you think, jeez, this is frustrating, what idiot thought this was a good idea, but for most of your ride it ain't going to make sod all difference to the overall enjoyment of your day.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Capt Sisko

[Capt Sisko]

On 28/09/2023 at 08:08, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

It's shame about the Horseshoe Pass as that seems a bit silly

The reason behind the introduction of the speed limit was an illogical reaction to a fatal RTC. A young lad, just past his test, in a well past it's best Peugeot 206 that that he'd only bought a few weeks earlier and he lost control of it in the wooded section of the lower sloops. It was your typical to little skill, too much testosterone, look at me aren't I good scenario. The driver killed himself and a passenger.  I can't remember what speed the inquest said he was doing, but even if there had been the 40mph speed limit that there now is, I doubt the young driver would have been sticking to it anyway.

 

There then followed concerted campaign by the parent for a new speed limit and ten year later the council used the RTC as their excuse despite the fact excessive speed probably had very little to do with it!

[manxie49]

3 hours ago, Capt Sisko said:

The reason behind the introduction of the speed limit was an illogical reaction to a fatal RTC. A young lad, just past his test, in a well past it's best Peugeot 206 that that he'd only bought a few weeks earlier and he lost control of it in the wooded section of the lower sloops. It was your typical to little skill, too much testosterone, look at me aren't I good scenario. The driver killed himself and a passenger.  I can't remember what speed the inquest said he was doing, but even if there had been the 40mph speed limit that there now is, I doubt the young driver would have been sticking to it anyway.

 

There then followed concerted campaign by the parent for a new speed limit and ten year later the council used the RTC as their excuse despite the fact excessive speed probably had very little to do with it!

This is the problem ...... The people who break the law, speed, cause and get involved in serious RTC's, aren't just going to change the way they drive because someone puts a 20mph sign up!  All it does is penalise everyone and cause a lot of frustration.

[Bianco2564]

Its happening in the Banbury area too.

On my commute along the A361, one village called Wardington has recently changed to 20mph.

 

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23706759.oxfordshire-seven-20mph-schemes-approved/

 

 

[Bender]

Speaking of frustration, I watched a cantankerous old woman walking down a single track road with a 30t ish lorry behind her, she walked all the way to the end of the road before deciding to stand at the side on the grass, where the junction was, she had walked past 2 field gate entrances, I had to watch it all as I needed to be up the road they were coming down as we're other cars coming the other way

[iangaryprice]

I live near Buckley in North Wales. Buckley was one of the trial areas for the 20mph speed limit, so we have had it for over a year.

The 20mph applies to all areas that were previoulsy 30mph, except for exempt roads (usually main through routes).  There are no repeater signs to remind you its 20mph. Even some 40mph areas that have street lights have been reduced to 20mph.

I expect accidents to increase not decrease, much more tailgating, overtaking, lack of attention, traffic bunching up etc.

As mentioned in other replies, old people so paranoid about getting a ticket, they drive at 15mph. GOSAFE have said they will only deal with drivers over 25mph, and to start with they will only have to watch a safety video. Over 30mph will get a speeding ticket. 

As the OP commented about not visiting Wales any more, I think we will get a lot of this, especially from visitiors who get a ticket. Wales has problems with our economy, this is not going to help, the £32million spent o nthe 20mph was desperatly needed to help Wales NHS which is in a worse state than England.

There is a petition against the 20mph limit, it has over 400,000 signatures so far, by far the biggest petition in Wales, population of Wales is 3million!

 

 

[iangaryprice]

[JRH]

6 hours ago, Bianco2564 said:

Its happening in the Banbury area too.

On my commute along the A361, one village called Wardington has recently changed to 20mph.

 

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23706759.oxfordshire-seven-20mph-schemes-approved/

 

 

It’s happened on the A422 towards Edgehill from Banbury. 2 off 20 mph zones. One is ok it’s just through a village the other is OTT.

Edited September 30, 2023 by JRH

[Isla]

On 27/09/2023 at 12:23, manxie49 said:

Just after some advice.  Is there anyone here from Wales, or anyone who has recently been to Wales since the new speed limits were introduced??  A group of us have been planning a trip for next spring, Wales was to be our destination for a week.  We all met last night for a couple of beers and now the consensus is to go elsewhere.   We've all read the crap on the MSM, and heard all the horror stories about how draconian it's become, but the truth is, having not been recently, we don't know.  I personally enjoy riding in Wales, but have no idea how much of an actual pain in the arse these new laws have become, I certainly don't want to be riding round everywhere in 1st and 2nd gear.  Input from anyone who's there or who has recently been would be a help.  Cheers.

On my recent trip to Scotland I rode through a few town centres at 20mph and the world is still turning. Why not go & find out? It may be perfectly rational where they have implemented it.

[oldgrump]

Well I've been talking to my mate who lives near Brynamman, and he reckon's it's not that bad once you get out of the town's, yes the villages are 20mph, but he reckons the roads we ride on the Welsh Rally, are going to be fine!!!

 

The Mountain road from Brynamman to Llangadog A4069, is 40mph and monitored with 2 or 3 speed camera's [average]

 

Hoping to pop up before the winter to see him so will let you know.

 

And as @Isla, say's Scotland has a lot of Towns and Villages at 20mph, and it is a pain, especially as my Wife say's it's done to protect the Local's, What Local's!!!! Most of the villages are bloody empty!!

 

We've just done 1200miles in Scotland and it didn't really ruin it for us.

 

Do I agree with 20mph, hell no, means I have to run the VFR in 1st gear, and waste a ton of fuel!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[S-Westerly]

My town has a 20 mph limit in the centre which h given the narrow congested streets isn't particularly onerous. The roads around the centre are all 30 or 40. 

 

In Germany and France last year most of the small towns and villages had 30 kph in the centre so equivalent to 20. Its not the end of the world but I don't like it as it's the constant 1st gear and wasting fuel. If as in Wales it's done in the name of the environment its bullshit as I'd guess the emissions per area will be worse. 

[Grumpy Old Git]

Most villages in Cambs are 20mph.