Can't rev match on a downshift

[Beans]

I can't seem to master the throttle blip, down shift business and wondering if anyone has any advice. I think my problems are with the timing, and with how quickly to let out the clutch.

[dynax]

Practice, and taking note of your speed and engine rev's in any given gear, best is to practice on a quiet road and get a feel for it through the engine

[TimR]

For what purpose /what are you trying to achieve?

This will have some relevance to technique

[learningtofly]

One tip which might help, if it pertains to your bike... if you have free play in your throttle, get it to the point where the throttle will "bite" (to use clutch terminology - can't think of a better way to put it) it before you try to blip it. The free play alone can throw your timing out if you don't allow for it.

[Guest]

Don't need to use clutch. Accelerate - then tap shift lever down while rolling off throttle. When a clutch cable snaps, this technique will be very useful.

[bonio]

Don't need to use clutch. Accelerate - then tap shift lever down while rolling off throttle. When a clutch cable snaps, this technique will be very useful.

Had this. Very quickly got a whole lot better at looking ahead, smooth riding and clutchless shifts. The only issue was stopping a red lights: all I could manage was to stall the bike and start it again when they went green.

[Beans]

Don't think it is play in the cable but I will take a look.

For me, I want a really smooth down change to match my well practiced upshift. Upshift is easy. Down shift from 6-5-4 is easy, probably due to the tolerance between the gears, for want of a better description. So the problem is downshift smartly from 4-3-2-1.

I'm confused about the timing and overlap of the various elements, and how much blip to give. I guess it's practice practice practice.

[dynax]

Keep an eye on your speed and rev's in any gear say 3rd gear, eg if travelling at 30mph in 3rd the rev's might be at 6000, so in 4th at 30mph the rev's might be at 4000, so what you want is to match the rev's to the speed to the gear you want to be in, so going from 4th at 30 you need the rev's to be at 6000 to match for 3rd gear at 30mph, hth

[fastbob]

I can honestly say that I've no idea what this thread is about . I've tried to relate it to how I ride a bike and my mind is blank . I can only conclude that either I've been riding so long that my actions have become second nature or that Mr Beans is seriously over thinking things . What is it that you're actually trying to achieve here ? There's nobody watching or listening when you change gear so what does it matter so long as you're not damaging the bike ?

[dynax]

I can honestly say that I've no idea what this thread is about . I've tried to relate it to how I ride a bike and my mind is blank . I can only conclude that either I've been riding so long that my actions have become second nature or that Mr Beans is seriously over thinking things . What is it that you're actually trying to achieve here ? There's nobody watching or listening when you change gear so what does it matter so long as you're not damaging the bike ?

 

I think to achieve smooth downshift's as opposed to jerky/snatchy engine braked shift's

[Stu]

Just use the clutch! That's what it's there for!

[fullscreenaging]

Pull the clutch in

As soon as it disengages snap the throttle back so the revs increase rapidly but as soon as the revs come up close the throttle.

As soon as the revs hit the peak change down and release the clutch smoothly.

So

Clutch in

Rev/change gear

Clutch out smoothly

It may sound loud at first but it’s not. It may be jerky at first so adjust the clutch control. Just practice to build the muscle memory.

Once you master the technique you will be able to do it while braking all the way to 1st

[XTreme]

I've always blipped on downshifts.....cos years ago gearboxes weren't as slick as they are now.

I can't tell you how I do it though......it's just an automatic thing.

[Marino]

Don't need to use clutch. Accelerate - then tap shift lever down while rolling off throttle. When a clutch cable snaps, this technique will be very useful.

Had this. Very quickly got a whole lot better at looking ahead, smooth riding and clutchless shifts. The only issue was stopping a red lights: all I could manage was to stall the bike and start it again when they went green.

 

There is new MV tv with scs clutch, u can stop without using the clutch and it will be ok, maybe ur model can get upgrade

[rennie]

I bet you're overthinking it [mention]Beans[/mention] !

It should happen naturally.

Could you do it on previous bikes?

your current bike is probably lazier/lower revving than before.

I wouldn't worry about it, if it really needs to happen it probably will all on it's own.

I do it on the VFR but honestly can't remember if I did on the cruiser or not

[learningtofly]

I've always blipped on downshifts.....cos years ago gearboxes weren't as slick as they are now.

I can't tell you how I do it though......it's just an automatic thing.

 

Same. There are only two things that matter though, and that's timing and the extent of the blip. Practice makes perfect, I guess.

[bonio]

There is new MV tv with scs clutch, u can stop without using the clutch and it will be ok, maybe ur model can get upgrade

You're right. In fact I tried out one with the SCS clutch, but didn't get on with it - seemed to me it's either on or off, couldn't find a way to feather it.

The clutch cable thing was on an old 2002 CB500. Part exchanged it back in 2013. I looked it up a couple of days ago - it's still happily running somewhere and doing a few thousand miles a year.

[skyrider]

yes good bikes the cb5 i had a 99 model

[XTreme]

I've always blipped on downshifts.....cos years ago gearboxes weren't as slick as they are now.

I can't tell you how I do it though......it's just an automatic thing.

 

Same. There are only two things that matter though, and that's timing and the extent of the blip. Practice makes perfect, I guess.

 

Blipping since 1971......in fact I've blipped through 2 wives, 5 kids, and 2 countries!

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[skyrider]

yeah you cant beat a bit of blipping

[Breezin]

I can't remember ever thinking about blipping (only recently revealed to me a 'rev matching'). It just seemed a natural thing to do. Maybe it was just fun.

When I came back to bikes after a good few years off them, I found myself doing it automatically. I've actually tried to stop to see what would happen with a slipper clutch, but I've found it quite difficult. I can't stop blipping!

I do think a lot of these things are over-thunk nowadays, thanks to the Internet. Counter-steering anybody? We've all been counter-steering since we took stabilisers off our first bicycle.

[Beans]

I do think a lot of these things are over-thunk nowadays, thanks to the Internet. Counter-steering anybody? We've all been counter-steering since we took stabilisers off our first bicycle.

 

Not sure I agree entirely but I would say that, I started this thread. I justsigned up for IAM next year and to pass the test, I need to think about these things. For example Counter steering may be the way we all go around, and always have done but if it's not something that you have thought about, you may not choose to press harder on the inside grip when the corner is tighter than it appeared.

Rev matching is a nice to have, to smooth out a downshift.

I don't see any problems with striving to improve all the time and be someone who wants to be a thoughtful, reflective rider. If others are happy not to think about these things, fine

[TimR]

I do think a lot of these things are over-thunk nowadays, thanks to the Internet. Counter-steering anybody? We've all been counter-steering since we took stabilisers off our first bicycle.

 

Not sure I agree entirely but I would say that, I started this thread. I justsigned up for IAM next year and to pass the test, I need to think about these things. For example Counter steering may be the way we all go around, and always have done but if it's not something that you have thought about, you may not choose to press harder on the inside grip when the corner is tighter than it appeared.

Rev matching is a nice to have, to smooth out a downshift.

I don't see any problems with striving to improve all the time and be someone who wants to be a thoughtful, reflective rider. If others are happy not to think about these things, fine

With IAM be prepared to be told that you are not to use the gearbox to slow down...

It is preferred to slow down on approach to a Hazard to use brakes and then select a suitable gear

They will allow use of the gearbox to maintain a smooth progress... Ie approaching a roundabout where you have clear view of other approaches and selecting a lower gear allows you to navigate smoothly under consistent power control .

Sadly I'm old school / old hgv gearbox learned and gears are for going and slowing and Brakes are for stopping ..( guess who got consistently told to use brakes more)

How to do it .... Get used to how your vehicle reacts in each gear under engine braking ...

Get used to that point of rev range in each gear of where you can change upwards smoothly that doesn't cause the engine to struggle or change speed dramatically...

Clutchless down shifting on a bike is not ideal for the selectors as its generally a bit more forceful than upshifting ( yet i will happily do it on trackbike but not on the gtr ) but it is possible .

Technique ....

Practice with the higher gears first ...

Don't go 2nd to 1st doing this as it may result in unwanted and unsightly skidmarks

Practice

Clutch in , select gear , smooth clutch release .... Get used to that transgression and reaction

Then add in the rev increase to combat the de-acceleration

Clutch in , Select gear ,smooth clutch release whilst applying a bit of throttle during the clutch release

Aggressive blip

Clutch in ,select gear simultaneously blip throttle , clutch release

[Mickly]

Nothing better than slamming down the box & locking the back wheel into a junction, bollox to blipping

[Stu]

With IAM be prepared to be told that you are not to use the gearbox to slow down...

It is preferred to slow down on approach to a Hazard to use brakes and then select a suitable gear

They will allow use of the gearbox to maintain a smooth progress... Ie approaching a roundabout where you have clear view of other approaches and selecting a lower gear allows you to navigate smoothly under consistent power control .

Sadly I'm old school / old hgv gearbox learned and gears are for going and slowing and Brakes are for stopping ..( guess who got consistently told to use brakes more)

 

 

I have often heard the gears are for going brakes are for stopping slogan

And I am in the same boat as you! I was taught how to drive by an ex royal engineer who spent a lot of time driving scammels with a lot of weight on the back! 100 tonne+

I was made to drive without using brakes