Smart motorway update.

[Steve_M]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/smart-motorway/

[fullscreenaging]

The Government clearly put saving money before saving lives. 
Anyone with half a brain can see these are extremely dangerous. 
So many factors are involved for things to go wrong if someone breaks down and it’s usually going to boil down to human decisions, from the operators to the drivers, and we know how many idiots are on the roads nowadays. 
Hard shoulders work 99.9% of the time as you can get out of the way of the idiot drivers. 
Instead of adding more lanes to reduce congestion there should be more education and enforcement of using the motorway lanes correctly. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by fullscreenaging

[James in Brum]

The evidendence seemd to suggest they are safer :/)

[Six30]

Any one who  thinks these motorways are safer is a c"nt..... and the money its cost .

Edited April 24, 2021 by Six30

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

12 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

The evidendence seemd to suggest they are safer :/)

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

Since they introduced smart motorways I have avoided them whenever possible. Journeys may take longer, but surprisingly not often as much as you'd think, but they are far more pleasant and relaxing.

[James in Brum]

There are of course lies lies and damn statistics but what is the evidence that these motorways are less safe? They seem to be going from rate of accidents and they seem to be lower for the all lane motorways. 
I’m not invested one way or another apart from being frustrated with the dismissal of evidence being generally pervasive in society at the moment.

[Six30]

8 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

There are of course lies lies and damn statistics but what is the evidence that these motorways are less safe? They seem to be going from rate of accidents and they seem to be lower for the all lane motorways. 
I’m not invested one way or another apart from being frustrated with the dismissal of evidence being generally pervasive in society at the moment.

https://news.sky.com/story/smart-motorways-roads-without-a-hard-should-linked-to-more-accidents-and-fatalities-12263368

[James in Brum]

5 minutes ago, Six30 said:

https://news.sky.com/story/smart-motorways-roads-without-a-hard-should-linked-to-more-accidents-and-fatalities-12263368

That report only says there is a higher chance of a breakdown happening in lane that is active. Of course that is the case in all lane motorways.  The previous article describes that despite that there are few accidents than in a non-smart motorway. 
 

I care not one bit about this but people present evidence ina. Way that is unhelpful. That Sky news article does this. 

[Six30]

31 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

That report only says there is a higher chance of a breakdown happening in lane that is active. Of course that is the case in all lane motorways.  The previous article describes that despite that there are few accidents than in a non-smart motorway. 
 

I care not one bit about this but people present evidence ina. Way that is unhelpful. That Sky news article does this. 

talk about cherry pick... 

[James in Brum]

In what way Six. The evidence was presented in relation to an incident whereby someone died. The evidence in the article does not describe that there are more incidents where there are crashes or injuries. The evidence only describes that there is a higher chance of being in an active lane. Whilst that might intuitively seem to mean more danger other evidence suggests less incidents. 
If in that coroner’s hearing there was evidence of increased risk of fatality I would have thought it would have been presented. 

[SometimesSansEngine]

I'd suggest some of you avoid rural roads, much much more dangerous. Even before you factor improvements that could still be made to smart motorways in terms of stopped vehicle detection and more frequent refuges.

 

But then humans always are poor at risk perception.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

2 hours ago, SometimesSansEngine said:

I'd suggest some of you avoid rural roads, much much more dangerous. Even before you factor improvements that could still be made to smart motorways in terms of stopped vehicle detection and more frequent refuges.

 

But then humans always are poor at risk perception.

If have a job doing that where I live. Nothing but tractors, sheep and bunnies round here.

[fastbob]

Fortunately I am lucky enough to only ride a bike for pleasure . I detest Smart Motorway and I will avoid at all costs . I find the whole set up hugely distracting and very stressful . There's just too much information for me and every driver around me  to process . I've nothing against a bit of lane management in bottlenecks like the M6 Birmingham section but these bloody things seem to be spreading across the whole country . And then there's the years of disruption caused by building work to create them in the first place . 

[dynax]

There is an article in this months MAG Network, https://wiki.mag-uk.org/images/0/0c/Network_2021_04.pdf

[Steve_M]

52 minutes ago, dynax said:

There is an article in this months MAG Network, https://wiki.mag-uk.org/images/0/0c/Network_2021_04.pdf

I was more concerned* about the Police and Crime Bill in that. I did mention it before it’s second reading  but my concerns were dismissed. 
 

* possibly the understatement of the year. It’s a poorly worded piece of legislation, draconian, that could be interpreted in so many ways. 

[KiwiBob]

I hate "smart" motorways! .. When ever I do use them I never use the inside lane! Fingers crossed that I never break down on one! 

[Bender]

Folks will invariably have accidents anywhere,  on a road where the speed limit can be 70mph and to have to stop in a lane invariably populated by large commercial vehicles is just inviting the inevitable.

[onesea]

3 hours ago, fastbob said:

And then there's the years of disruption caused by building work to create them in the first place . 

The M27 at a rough guess it’s working out about 5 mile/ year.

 

If people are watching and paying attention and actually following signs, they SHOULD be safer than motorways.

 

How ever the hard shoulder on a motorway  should be a safe area, it is the most dangerous. I would guess for the same reason a brake down on a smart motorway is always going to be a dangerous event.

[Bender]

Some smart motorways don't have full coverage of breakdown detection, at least with a hard shoulder your off the live lane, with sm your in a live lane till software or operator notices you, this was attributed directly to a collision and death where a gap in surveillance existed 

[Trooper74]

People are being killed that would have been fine if there had been a hard shoulder available. Bad decisions, stupid decisions about where to stop on a SM should not be a death sentence ...

I live between junction 31 and 32 of the M1 and daily travel from Junction 1 M18 to junction 29 M1 ... I see cars abandoned in the first second and third lanes weekly ... people stranded ON the concrete crash barriers .... parents and children huddling between the armco around bridges...

 

Corporate manslaughter awaits Highways England !

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Trooper74

[dynax]

1 hour ago, Steve_M said:

I was more concerned* about the Police and Crime Bill in that. I did mention it before it’s second reading  but my concerns were dismissed. 
 

* possibly the understatement of the year. It’s a poorly worded piece of legislation, draconian, that could be interpreted in so many ways. 

 

I have no idea what was written as I didn't read it

[James in Brum]

I accept your logic everyone where is the evidence that there are more deaths because of them? That is the assertion, more dangerous. Where is the evidence there are more incidents and fatalities?

[fullscreenaging]

36 minutes ago, James in Brum said:

I accept your logic everyone where is the evidence that there are more deaths because of them? That is the assertion, more dangerous. Where is the evidence there are more incidents and fatalities?

 

Here is one article giving evidence 

 

http://www.transport-network.co.uk/Smart-motorway-deaths-rise-to-record-levels/17147

[James in Brum]

Thanks 

Hard information, rate per mile of motorway increase. I would love to see all the figures ( not enough to search for them)

[Bender]

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51236375.amp?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16192910135597&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From %1%24s

 

 

 

Extract from

 

 Freedom of Information (FoI) request sent by Panorama to Highways England revealed that on one section of the M25, outside London, the number of near misses had risen 20-fold since the hard shoulder was removed in April 2014.

In the five years before the road was converted into a smart motorway there were just 72 near misses. In the five years after, there were 1,485.

A "near miss" is counted every time there is an incident with "the potential to cause injury or ill health".