Attempted theft, not sure what to do next.

[mealexme]

So, some scumbags tried to steal my bike over the weekend.

So far, visual damage seems to be ignition barrel, top yolk, wiring loom, exhaust, rear fairings on both sides and there's an oil leek I've never noticed before (although that may just be blown gasket). I've not had a proper look in the day yet. The bike wasn't in the best condition beforehand, and already had small scratches etc which I was planning on repairing. Now it looks like I'll need to replace parts. 

It looks like they've tried to hotwire it and tried to bump start it down the hill, but failed. If I touch the wires together, the lights come on and I can get it to turn over on the switch, but it won't start, so I'm not sure if there's some other damage I can't see. Luckily it's old enough that it doesn't have an ECU, so maybe just a fuse has gone. 

 

First thing I did was call the police, who gave me a crime number and told me that they have contacted my insurance company, and that need to contact them too.

 

Now, after reading my insurance policy, this leaves me with a dilemma. 

It's a first gen SV650N, and it seems the parts I need are hard to find, and they certainly don't make them new anymore. I'm looking at my £300 excess and the value of the bike being £1200. That means max, they're going to give me is £900.  Looking on marketplace, it seems locally for a similar bike, I'm looking at paying £1500 (£600 difference)

 

Then there's the other issue, which is if they will even pay out at all due to where it was parked at the time.

Where it is normally parked is hard to explain on an online form, or over the phone to an insurance company. It's in a private parking space next to other private parking spaces, so I told them it's a carpark, even though technically it is not.

But... Thursday it was blocked off by some scaffolding, so I parked it on the pavement on the other side of the road (which is as close to my space as I can get without causing obstruction). This is where it was parked at the time of the attempted theft. I've heard numerous stories about insurance companies not paying out due to vehicles being parked in places other than stated on the insurance. 

 

Now I'm thinking if I go through insurance, best case scenario is I get £900 and I'm down £600.

The worst case scenario is they refuse to pay out and that effects my car and motorbike insurance in the future, so I'm at a bit of a loss

 

Do I try and just fix it, have it off the road for months (I have other transport) or go through insurance knowing I'm going to lose money and possibly find it difficult to get insurance in the future if they decide to refuse to pay?

 

 

**update** - whilst writing this, I had a call-back from the police telling me the CCTV down the road has been down for the last couple of days, and if I find other CCTV footage (neighbours may have some), they can't do anything if they are wearing a balaclava or helmet. So all that calling the police really did was push my premiums up next year because they've told my insurance company the bikes been "vandalised"

 

[Fozzie]

I've had this more than once in London. 

 

How was the bike parked security wise? Did it have a chain or anything like that on?

It sounds like it attracted some chancers who tried their hand at electrics and got it wrong, thinking it was an easy theft. The problem with these sorts, they are usually f**king stupid, and persistent. So I'd expect them to return, and I'd get it locked to something or stored away at a friend/family members house for the short term. 

 

As for insurance, if your company knows, you need all the options. If they pay you out but offer for you to buy back the bike for pennies, it might offset some of the pain you'll have for the next 4-5 years. If it hasn't been logged, I'd probably look at repairing the bike myself and keeping it quiet. They say that you should notify your insurer due to any incident, for "notification purposes", which I've often taken as code for "your premiums are going right up son". If there's no law compelling you to tell them, I wouldn't. 

 

 

 

[Nick the wanderer]

Its not just next year with the insurance. One of the questions is have you had a claim in the last 5 years?  You'll be paying for it for the next 5 years, approx 20-30% more each year. Do you protect your no claims?

They will not pay if it wasn't parked where you said it was, a 'car park'.  You want to check your policy for the exact wording on that. If it was classed as parked 'on the street' for instance on the police report, it wouldn't be in a car park.

Don't know how much you pay for your insurance only you will know if it's worth claiming. If you do claim and get past the parking hurdle you should get something. But you will lose the bike. If you don't claim you get to keep the bike and can repair it, and don't have the hassle of the claim. You don't have to claim.

£600 is not to be sniffed at of course, but in the longer term of things.. well that's up to you.

You don't have to claim straight away, check your policy, you can think about it for a few days, some even allow a couple of weeks. Or not at all and take it on the chin.

[Capt Sisko]

The unfortunate fact of life is that the insurers will very likely write off your bike and even if you chose to buy it back it'll have considerable less resale value due to it being now a category whatever write off. The question is, can you live with the cosmetic damage and how much will a second-hand ignition barrel and the other necessary cost. Next year go for the cheapest no frills insurance going as you now know the bike is effectively only worth it's scrap value.

 

Secondly remember the Police telling them the bike's been vandalised is not the same as you putting in a claim. If asked you can always say it's an older bike the only item that really needed replacing is the ignition barrel and due to the low cost of a second hand unit and their high excess, you chose to replace that yourself. You might have to live with a note of an 'incident' on your record, but that's not the same as a claim (I think).

Edited March 11 by Capt Sisko

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Sorry to hear about your bike. My experience with insurance has led me to try to avoid involving them if at all possible, but it may be too late if they have been notified already. Even for a 'no fault' claim you are now statistically more likely to be a higher risk so your premiums will go up. Protected no claims is a bit of a con since whilst your percentage NCD is retained the actual premium isn't. So even with protected NCD your costs can rise.

 

Also - you say the bike is valued at £1200. Is that what you put in the insurance form? If so that's not what they will value it at. Their offer is usually what you might expect to get if you traded it in, not what it would cost you to buy it now. So the offer they make is usually in line with what the trade in price is, not the retail price. Hence it is often even less worth going through the insurance for older bikes.

 

I hope you can find parts and get it sorted cheaply. 

[Tiggie]

Didn't know police contacted insurance company for you now 

 

Similar thing happened to me years ago. Woke up in morning to find bike stolen. Contacted Police & insurance. I then went for a scout round the bad estates in town and found it in a communal alley behind a row of houses. Wires all stripped and twisted together in a failed attempt to start it.

 

Pushed it back home, contacted Police & insurance again ( this was only about 3 hours after I first reported it) and all was fine in the world until I got my renewal. Rang insurance up and they said it had gone up because I made a claim. I said the claim was cancelled after a few hours and no payout was made. Doesn't matter as my file shows a claim made for a stolen bike.

 

I wrongly assumed a claim against your insurance would only count once they had actually paid out 

[Nick the wanderer]

So the moral of the story so far is don't notify the police until you are sure you want to claim. 

[Blackholesun]

One of the worst things I did when my bike was stolen and recovered working was call the insurance company 

[Fozzie]

1 hour ago, Nick the wanderer said:

So the moral of the story so far is don't notify the police until you are sure you want to claim. 

 

Bingo

 

Insurers charge based on risk, determined by the types and amount of claims they pay out for by area. So their risk is an entirely monetary based entity, so how can they charge you heightened premiums when you haven't had a claim paid out? It's like they are pre-emptively trying to charge you for a consequence that hasn't happened yet, or a future higher level of risk. Which feels like it borders the line of being a scam to me. 

[Throttled]

12 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

 

Bingo

 

Insurers charge based on risk, determined by the types and amount of claims they pay out for by area. So their risk is an entirely monetary based entity, so how can they charge you heightened premiums when you haven't had a claim paid out? It's like they are pre-emptively trying to charge you for a consequence that hasn't happened yet, or a future higher level of risk. Which feels like it borders the line of being a scam to me. 

 

My understanding is that insurers use actuaries to predict risk based on trends and those trends are determined by information such as the number of thefts reported. The more thefts reported, the higher the premium, as actuaries predict the insurance company will face more claims.

[geofferz]

A 'friend' of mine once called to notify insurance of a minor car fender Bender (lol it capitalised it) which was the settled in cash, no claim on the end. They called a few times weeks later and I said 'I have no idea what you're talking about'. Clean file still!

[Capt Sisko]

Not a person go at you or anything personal if the answer is none, but what lock(s) did you deploy and what method did the scrotes use to overcome them? I know it won't help you, but it might just make someone else think about what they are using and avoid the misery I'm sure you're experiencing.

[Fozzie]

38 minutes ago, Throttled said:

 

My understanding is that insurers use actuaries to predict risk based on trends and those trends are determined by information such as the number of thefts reported. The more thefts reported, the higher the premium, as actuaries predict the insurance company will face more claims.

 

I was told different, when I queried why different insurers can quote wildly different figures for the same address in the same area. The police data would seem to give a better place to start from, but I was essentially told insurers have their own data for most areas, which they prioritise as it bluntly shows how much they are making/losing in a given area. But this could have been unique to that particular insurer?

I'd still say it's unfair to treat someone as if they've had a claim though. A new quote should reflect the updated data for the area, rather than penalising someone for a claim they didn't make. 

[Joe85]

If I thought I could get away with it, I’d have absolutely no issues with lying to insurance company so the outcome favours me.

 

They can get f**ked.

[Capt Sisko]

24 minutes ago, Joe85 said:

If I thought I could get away with it, I’d have absolutely no issues with lying to insurance company so the outcome favours me.

Kind of agree with you, they use every corporate trick in the book & small print in the reduce or avoid paying out and they don't care about you as an individual or your circumstances. They then try to shaft you with not properly trained legal representation and credit hire / replacement bike agreements. I'm posting a separate topic with a link to a video called The Truth About . . The Insurance Industry. I urge everyone to watch it.   

[Gerontious]

There is only one reason I would claim (in this kind of situation) and that's if the bike has gone.

[geofferz]

19 hours ago, Joe85 said:

If I thought I could get away with it, I’d have absolutely no issues with lying to insurance company so the outcome favours me.

 

They can get f**ked.

A fair sentiment but they actually mostly lose money at the moment, if it helps alleviate some aggreviances you may feel towards them. 

[husoi]

I don't believe for a moment any insurance company loses money.

Maybe if they stop paying stupid amounts as bonuses and performance enticers they could lower the premiums.

One thing I have learnt a few weeks ago is that there are loads of brokers that are part of the same company, just different names. This becomes evident when you get quotes that are pennies apart and you read the small print and they are part of the same group.

If insurance were losing money they would have closed down long ago.

 

They are 1 step lower than bankers...

closely followed by estate agents and lawyers. 

[Blackholesun]

If I can’t get my bike fixed I think I’m gonna leave it outside mine and  hope some karnt wheels it away again 

[RideWithStyles]

Funny enough this is one subject where pretty much everyone is correct and sure fire the feelings to them are justified.

 

Just got a renewal policy through email. cheeky mofos hidden away some of the changed details  THAT THEY DID...like added over double the excess, removed protect ncd, removed pillion cover (this is criminal as i do carry pillions) and some other things...when questioned the operator tried to glaze over that BS....NOT FALLING FOR THAT! SO the moral of things are NOT TO ASSUME ITS THE SAME, go through everything with a fine tooth comb and suspect they will want to screw you over in every shape manageable!!!

 

this industry really needs to shape and clean up cos if they think its regulated then either these clowns are running round in circles through loop holes or the regulation book is a long standing joke. PS i think its both and more.

[Ian Frog]

Not making a profit !

Just heard on the radio that when Van Gogh`s Sunflowers was sold as the most expensive painting ever at Christies (a fair few years ago)  it was bought by an insurance company for the art museum they were setting up in their h.q.

Couldn`t make it up ffs.

Cheers

Ian

Edited March 12 by Ian Frog
Qualifying statement about when.

[Ian Frog]

Wrong topic lol hopefully a mod will move my post to the insurance thread ?

Cheers

Ian

[Throttled]

On 11/03/2024 at 12:54, Fozzie said:

 

I was told different, when I queried why different insurers can quote wildly different figures for the same address in the same area. The police data would seem to give a better place to start from, but I was essentially told insurers have their own data for most areas, which they prioritise as it bluntly shows how much they are making/losing in a given area. But this could have been unique to that particular insurer?

I'd still say it's unfair to treat someone as if they've had a claim though. A new quote should reflect the updated data for the area, rather than penalising someone for a claim they didn't make. 

 

The insurers do use their own data, which is the job of actuaries to produce and analyse.

[mealexme]

On 11/03/2024 at 09:52, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

Also - you say the bike is valued at £1200. Is that what you put in the insurance form? If so that's not what they will value it at. Their offer is usually what you might expect to get if you traded it in, not what it would cost you to buy it now. So the offer they make is usually in line with what the trade in price is, not the retail price. Hence it is often even less worth going through the insurance for older bikes.

Yes, that's what I put on the form. Stupid that's not what they value it at though. Trade in pruce for a 20+ year old bike is going to be less than my excess I bet. 

 

On 11/03/2024 at 09:54, Tiggie said:

Didn't know police contacted insurance company for you now 

 

Similar thing happened to me years ago. Woke up in morning to find bike stolen. Contacted Police & insurance. I then went for a scout round the bad estates in town and found it in a communal alley behind a row of houses. Wires all stripped and twisted together in a failed attempt to start it.

 

Pushed it back home, contacted Police & insurance again ( this was only about 3 hours after I first reported it) and all was fine in the world until I got my renewal. Rang insurance up and they said it had gone up because I made a claim. I said the claim was cancelled after a few hours and no payout was made. Doesn't matter as my file shows a claim made for a stolen bike.

 

I wrongly assumed a claim against your insurance would only count once they had actually paid out 

That's rough!

I'm thinking back to that phone call now, and I must have misunderstood what she said, because she also told me to notify my insurance even if I don't make a claim which seems strange if they've already done it. 

 

On 11/03/2024 at 12:42, Capt Sisko said:

Not a person go at you or anything personal if the answer is none, but what lock(s) did you deploy and what method did the scrotes use to overcome them? I know it won't help you, but it might just make someone else think about what they are using and avoid the misery I'm sure you're experiencing.

At the time, nothing. Now it has a cover on it and disklock with alarm. Not the greatest security, but they didn't seem overly prepared last time, couldnt get it started and the bike isn't worth much in parts, so I presume they were just after a joy ride and doubt they'll bother again now. 

Also looking at CCTV, not that that will help because according to the police, if they were wearing a helmet, there's nothing they can do even with CCTV

[mealexme]

I think the insurance aggravates me more than the actual attempted theft. I pay over £300 a year on a policy that basically seems worthless, on a bike that's worth 4x that. 

 

I know there's nothing the police can do about it, but I just feel kinda abandoned by the people that are supposed to be there to help. And the people (insurance) that I pay to help.

 

Anyway, don't suppose anyone knows anywhere to get a 1st gen SV650N top yolk from? None on ebay or local scrap yards. 

 

If not, I may stoop to walking around with my helmet on until I can find one as there is zero risk in being caught 

 

Just to be clear, I'm seriously bitter about this whole experience, just encase it hasn't shown through haha