New standard for your helmet

[Bender]

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/amp/news/motorbike-helmet-ece-standard/

Should make for safer lids.

[Squidward]

I've got a 'cheapo' 'BOX' helmet and surprisingly it gets a 4 Star rating in a SHARP test....I'm more than a little impressed.

[Blackholesun]

Hi everyone....is there any reason to buy a £400 helmet compared to a £30 helmet as apart from the weight both seem to have the required ec seal of approval safety wise?I recall on my CBT being told not to but recently I was told my helmet is shit

[dynax]

The most important part of buying a helmet is one that fits properly, a well fitted cheapo will be better than a more expensive badly fitting one.

You need to try them on, some places you can still try them if you wear a disposable balaclava or some kind of head covering

[Bender]

What ever you buy make sure it's genuine, a cheap knockoff could and probably will disintegrate on impact.

 

[Blackholesun]

The one I have from ghost bikes size M fits just perfectly and is nice and snug 

[geofferz]

1 hour ago, Blackholesun said:

Hi everyone....is there any reason to buy a £400 helmet compared to a £30 helmet as apart from the weight both seem to have the required ec seal of approval safety wise?I recall on my CBT being told not to but recently I was told my helmet is shit

The tests are there for a reason. If its genuine and it fits go nuts. 

[Fish]

There not exactly real world tests though. I'd be more interested in the new FIM standard, but we all know they will be the higher end of the price range when they start filtering into the shops.

 

Fish

[manxie49]

3 hours ago, dynax said:

The most important part of buying a helmet is one that fits properly, a well fitted cheapo will be better than a more expensive badly fitting one.

You need to try them on, some places you can still try them if you wear a disposable balaclava or some kind of head covering

Total agreement with this, I used to struggle finding a really good fitting helmet,  I eventually got round to trying Shoei and have stuck with them ever since, they fit me perfectly.  Any good dealer will always help you choose the right helmet,  if he knows his stuff he'll base his advice on fit rather that cost.

[Tiggie]

Always worth sharing this again when the subject of safety marks and regulations is mentioned 

 

 

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, Fish said:

There not exactly real world tests though. I'd be more interested in the new FIM standard, but we all know they will be the higher end of the price range when they start filtering into the shops.

 

Fish

There has been a bit of controversy over the sharps tests because as you say they are not real world tests 

They was doing impacts that did not represent real world accidents

[Gerontious]

Simply put.. the more you pay as a general rule the more you get. There is a bare minimum standard that all helmets for sale in this country must meet. pay more and you tend to get vents that work. a decent.. often removable and washable (or easy clean) lining. light weight. improved materials built to last. Wind tunnel tested and the list goes on. its often the case that people start with a budget helmet due to the overal cost of passing the test, buying a bike and gear. and theres nothing wrong with that... but as time goes by and your spending returns to some kind of normal then you might consider upgrading as and when you can afford to. We're not all made of money and cannot all afford the best at the very start,

[bonio]

... a controversy that played into the hands of the top brand manufacturers and people (like me) who buy their lids (even when some underperform in the Sharp tests). But I've never seen any evidence that supports the controversy - a not a single study of data collected from real-world accidents that shows the Sharp tests up.

I've a Shoei GYT Air. Like a lot of helmets with an internal sun visor, Sharp shows up a weakness on the left hand side (I think it's the left side, might be right). The weakness is associated with thinner padding where the mechanism for the lowering the visor sits. I reckon Sharp is probably right, and my head would be safer with the full thickness padding there, but I still chose this helmet because it's very comfortable, it's very quiet, it fits well, and the visor is a benefit I don't want to do without.

[husoi]

38 minutes ago, Tiggie said:

Always worth sharing this again when the subject of safety marks and regulations is mentioned 

 

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with the "Fake mark"

Not defending anyone here but if EU is stupid enough to leave a massive loophole in their rules that's what happens.

We all know Chinese love to copy stuff instead creating their own. There is an argument for why would you recreate the wheel?

This doesn't excuse IP and patent violations and there are laws which all countries should follow.

Had the EU trademark the CE symbol and would have made it harder to use it.

Lets not forget that others do similar crimes and get away with it.

 

As said, you get what you pay for. Don't expect an Aston Martin for the price of a Dacia 

[onesea]

17 minutes ago, husoi said:

As said, you get what you pay for. Don't expect an Aston Martin for the price of a Dacia 

That does not mean if you buy an Aston Martin, its any more or less fit for purpose, in fact for many the Dacia maybe be a better buy not just on price point.

Not saying I wouldn't want an Aston,  just saying it might not be the best vehicle for your purpose.

I have had the superdooper Carbon Helmet, in the 5 years I have had it I have spent more on Visors for it than I did on my next helmet... 
If my present helmet gets a knock at £120 I replace it.

 

4 hours ago, dynax said:

You need to try them on, some places you can still try them if you wear a disposable balaclava or some kind of head covering

Not thought about that, even the head covering will change the size and feel when you try it on TF I Don't need a new helmet at the moment.

[S-Westerly]

Someone said long ago "if you've got a $10 head buy a $10 helmet." Also the Canadian guy FortNine has an interesting video where he tests some helmets to destruction. There's a  few others out there. Personally as I value my head I buy the best I can afford that fits well. 

 

[Guest Swagman]

4 hours ago, S-Westerly said:

Someone said long ago "if you've got a $10 head buy a $10 helmet." Also the Canadian guy FortNine has an interesting video where he tests some helmets to destruction. There's a  few others out there. Personally as I value my head I buy the best I can afford that fits well. 

 

Exactly buy the best you can afford, I couldn’t afford the last helmet, so my wife got it for me.

[Breezin]

I'm not convinced that the best you can afford necessarily equates with the best lid.

Helmets are functional items and you can objectively see some of what you're getting for your money, in terms of weight, features, etc. But they also are fashion items, and in fashion the main idea is that people pay for a label's statement, where quality may or may not follow. So I think that until there is some sort of independent testing arrangement beyond meeting basic standards we are largely working on trust and intuition.

HJC i70 does it for me... I'm not persuaded I need to spend more, though I probably wouldn't trust a helmet priced at £50.

[husoi]

2 minutes ago, Breezin said:

I'm not convinced that the best you can afford necessarily equates with the best lid.

Helmets are functional items and you can objectively see some of what you're getting for your money, in terms of weight, features, etc. But they also are fashion items, and in fashion the main idea is that people pay for a label's statement, where quality may or may not follow. So I think that until there is some sort of independent testing arrangement beyond meeting basic standards we are largely working on trust and intuition.

HJC i70 does it for me... I'm not persuaded I need to spend more, though I probably wouldn't trust a helmet priced at £50.

It all depends on personal circumstances.

If your top speed is around 60mph but in average you don't do more than 40 then you have no reason for an expensive super-duper lid.

If on the other hand you go on weeks touring then you really want to get something better. After a couple hours riding you will find that a cheap helmet becomes uncomfortable, heavy and if noisy this also is a problem.

Of course if you have a few 1,000's that you don't know what to do with it. Then you can go as crazy as getting a F1 helmet with all the gizmos that you can imagine. Made of carbon fibre, auto-dimming visors with electrical defog system. custom made, etc.

At the end is a matter of balance between what you need and what you can afford.  

[geofferz]

 

On 07/12/2020 at 14:36, husoi said:

I'm sorry but I disagree with the "Fake mark"

Not defending anyone here but if EU is stupid enough to leave a massive loophole in their rules that's what happens.

We all know Chinese love to copy stuff instead creating their own. There is an argument for why would you recreate the wheel?

This doesn't excuse IP and patent violations and there are laws which all countries should follow.

Had the EU trademark the CE symbol and would have made it harder to use it.

Lets not forget that others do similar crimes and get away with it.

 

 

Eh? It is a fake ce mark - fact. Which is bloody dangerous - this is personal protection equipment, not to be messed around with. Look at some crash tests on YouTube of these cheap Chinese crap lids bearing said ce mark. 

[husoi]

You can say what you want.

CE (European conformity) Isn't trademark protected although does have a distinct font and design

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

There is no international legal protection outside the EU for this so any country can use similar symbols, which is what the Chinese did.

Is it morally correct? Absolutely not

Is acceptable? No for sure

Is it ethical? Hardly

Is it illegal? No.

 

Please find the word "Illegal" (or any synonym) in this page:

https://www.cemarkingassociation.co.uk/ce-marking-and-the-chinese-export-logo/

 

further info here

https://siloscordoba.com/blog/corporate/china-export-is-not-ce-a-symbol-to-cause-confusion/

Edited December 8, 2020 by husoi

[onesea]

3 hours ago, husoi said:

It all depends on personal circumstances.
................

At the end is a matter of balance between what you need and what you can afford.  

 

4 hours ago, Breezin said:

I'm not convinced that the best you can afford necessarily equates with the best lid.

Sorry @husoi  , and @Breezin  if you feel I am miss quoting, to me that sums up not just lids but most motorbike gear.

I have yet to find research showing statistically the difference the "quality" of kit makes in the event of an off, its a very subjective point.
Even the cheapest stuff is better than nothing.

As with most things the quality of the cheapest gear can be noticeable less than "mid range".  However when people start paying 100's more for a brand and a few grams less weight and other special features I start to wonder.

Some one mentioned going on Tour, 2 suitable helmets:
FRANK THOMAS - FLH01 HELMET WHITE - £69.99
SCHUBERTH - C4 PRO MAGNITUDO HELMET WHITE - £624.99
Both about the same weight (1.6kg) both SHARP 3* Rated. 

Yes The Schuberth has more features and is probably a better helmet in many ways, is it £500 better?   
That becomes down to personal circumstance, if some one gave me  the choice of a free Schuberth or a Frank Thomas and £500 to go touring I would be asking them how many days holiday do they have left?
 

[husoi]

If only judge the helmets because of impact rating and declared weight then a cheaper one will do.

Personally I care about:

weight, (real weight not declared one)*

noise,

quality of padding fabric

quality of visor

locking system (to personal taste)

adequate intercom space

Quality of paint (scratch resistance)

to mention a few.

I'm not sure I would trust a boots manufacturer to build me a proper helmet to be honest...

 

* some manufacturers will declare weight without visor and internal padding as this is removable and argued not part of the helmet structure.

[Breezin]

3 hours ago, onesea said:

 

Sorry @husoi  , and @Breezin  if you feel I am miss quoting, to me that sums up not just lids but most motorbike gear.

I have yet to find research showing statistically the difference the "quality" of kit makes in the event of an off, its a very subjective point.
Even the cheapest stuff is better than nothing.

As with most things the quality of the cheapest gear can be noticeable less than "mid range".  However when people start paying 100's more for a brand and a few grams less weight and other special features I start to wonder.

Some one mentioned going on Tour, 2 suitable helmets:
FRANK THOMAS - FLH01 HELMET WHITE - £69.99
SCHUBERTH - C4 PRO MAGNITUDO HELMET WHITE - £624.99
Both about the same weight (1.6kg) both SHARP 3* Rated. 

Yes The Schuberth has more features and is probably a better helmet in many ways, is it £500 better?   
That becomes down to personal circumstance, if some one gave me  the choice of a free Schuberth or a Frank Thomas and £500 to go touring I would be asking them how many days holiday do they have left?
 

I'd probably agree with every word of that! Schuberth are lovely: they make me go 'mmm' in motorbike shops. But so is having £500 (I think -- I have had €500, but never £500 ) . I know which I'd choose.

Maybe reams of features, and of course exclusivity, but apart from official validation there seems to be little science justifying the massively expensive options. For example, I came across a piece of research some time ago* saying the top helmets only achieved marginally better noise protection than mid-range. I suspect that's probably true across a lot of variables.

*I can't find it now even though I thought I had bookmarked it. You'll just have to take it on trust that I'm not making it up!

Edited December 8, 2020 by Breezin

[geofferz]

6 hours ago, husoi said:

You can say what you want.

CE (European conformity) Isn't trademark protected although does have a distinct font and design

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

There is no international legal protection outside the EU for this so any country can use similar symbols, which is what the Chinese did.

Is it morally correct? Absolutely not

Is acceptable? No for sure

Is it ethical? Hardly

Is it illegal? No.

 

Please find the word "Illegal" (or any synonym) in this page:

https://www.cemarkingassociation.co.uk/ce-marking-and-the-chinese-export-logo/

 

further info here

https://siloscordoba.com/blog/corporate/china-export-is-not-ce-a-symbol-to-cause-confusion/

This is preposterous. You are defending something that is imitating a product that has been manufacturered to a good standard, in this case PPE. There are indeed no international copyright laws (certainly not recognised by China lol) so no, it's can't be illegal, you're right. 

 

I'm guessing you might have a connection to China? No problem with them here, but ppe should not be messed with. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by geofferz