Fazer will not engage clutch

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

If the rear wheel can be turned by hand in neutral but not in gear with the clutch lever fully pulled in then it does sound like there's something mechanically wrong.

 

A while back I suggested using a straight edge to check the drive plates, others have said the same - not sure if you did that or not. I use a metal rule and the simplest way to check is to shine a light from behind the piece you're testing. If they are warped you will see the line of light where even a tiny variation allows light to show through. Check them all the way round of course. Or have you purchased new drive discs as well?

 

Whilst the plates are out make sure the inner and outer parts of the basket can move independently of each other. I think you've already checked there are no signs of wear on the faces where the clutch discs engage that would prevent them moving freely.

 

Just to check, when you tighten the spring bolts make sure they are done in the usual 'star' pattern and only a couple of turns each at a time. 

[jedibiker]

4 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

If the rear wheel can be turned by hand in neutral but not in gear with the clutch lever fully pulled in then it does sound like there's something mechanically wrong.

 

A while back I suggested using a straight edge to check the drive plates, others have said the same - not sure if you did that or not. I use a metal rule and the simplest way to check is to shine a light from behind the piece you're testing. If they are warped you will see the line of light where even a tiny variation allows light to show through. Check them all the way round of course. Or have you purchased new drive discs as well?

 

Whilst the plates are out make sure the inner and outer parts of the basket can move independently of each other. I think you've already checked there are no signs of wear on the faces where the clutch discs engage that would prevent them moving freely.

 

Just to check, when you tighten the spring bolts make sure they are done in the usual 'star' pattern and only a couple of turns each at a time. 

I only checked the plates as a pack and not individual and only replaced the 2 that were looking blue in spots, was first and last plate (if going in order). Once I rule out the switch I think its worth doing a better check before the gasket arrives.

I only checked the inner basket movement, outer basket doesn't move. Should it?

Few things to go at today.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by jedibiker

[jedibiker]

switches are all ok.. Having looked at the video again of the basket, you can see the 8th rings dont flow with the rest, id not noticed before so Im going to check those plates and deeper in the basket.

 

@Mississippi Bullfrog so with a straight edge  (metal ruler) plates seem fine.. Put them on glass top, one side sits perfect, the other (rounded edge side) shows some light as if surface isnt totally flat. So one way measures great the other show its not perfect..

Edited April 2, 2021 by jedibiker

[Stu]

20 hours ago, jedibiker said:

switches are all ok..

 

So the side stand switch works fine? 

 

Also if its on the centre stand running and you put it in gear does it just cut out? 

[TimR]

So .

This was doing it before the engine work/oil filter change,?

 

Had you undertaken any work prior to this fault occurring? 

 

What happens if you try to start the bike in gear with clutch pulled in and side stand up? 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by TimR

[fastbob]

https://www.diymotofix.com/blog/how-to-properly-inspect-a-clutch

[fifthwheel]

My Fazer 600 Foxeye did exactly the same this year after standing a few months. The first time it happened when I went for first gear the bike tried to move forward and stalled, the clutch plates were stuck together. I let it run to warm through then started it in gear with the side and centre stands up with the lever pulled. The clutch parted and has been fine ever since. 

[fastbob]

17 minutes ago, fifthwheel said:

My Fazer 600 Foxeye did exactly the same this year after standing a few months. The first time it happened when I went for first gear the bike tried to move forward and stalled, the clutch plates were stuck together. I let it run to warm through then started it in gear with the side and centre stands up with the lever pulled. The clutch parted and has been fine ever since. 

As anyone who has owned or ridden a British bike will tell you , you free the clutch practically every time you start it . 

[jedibiker]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

 

So the side stand switch works fine? 

 

Also if its on the centre stand running and you put it in gear does it just cut out? 

I tested with the multimeter but also bypassed both too. both working as normal. It also cuts out on center stand mate yeah.

 

@TimR It started after the first oil drain, id left it a few days before refilling. it freed off though then after I had drained again due to engine noise it stuck again but wouldnt free up.. if i try and start it with clutch in, in gear stand up nothing happens at all.

If I drop it into gear it does lunge like you would expect.

 

@fastbob if i did that test with sharp side down they are perfect.. rounded side down not so great. odd

[Stu]

Right if it cuts out on the centre stand then it's not your clutch!! 

 

With mine running on the centre stand I can bang it in gear without clutch and it won't stall! It will just run the wheel round with a bit of a jump in doing so 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

15 hours ago, jedibiker said:

I tested with the multimeter but also bypassed both too. both working as normal. It also cuts out on center stand mate yeah.

 

@TimR if i try and start it with clutch in, in gear stand up nothing happens at all.

 

 

@fastbob

The bit about nothing happening if you start it with the clutch in, in gear, stand up....do you mean it isn't cranking over? The clutch wouldn't cause that. 

 

But then if with the engine off, in gear, clutch fully in, you can't turn the rear wheel, that does sound like a mechanical issue.

 

This sounds like more than one thing is going on.

[dynax]

Probably wrong but maybe something to do with the gear selector, possibly not engaging properly.

[TimR]

Did you fully remove engine when you worked on the exhaust etc ...

Ie chain off and away from frame ?

 

 

If you removed the engine fully IS there are chance that the clutch operating Rod has been located Wrong ie two holes next to each other causing the clutch not to be fully enganging .?

Edited April 4, 2021 by TimR

[jedibiker]

@Mississippi Bullfrog I mean if its in gear the starter wont turn the engine just like if you dont pull the clutch in

 

@TimR it did it before I took the engine out too, after an oil drain and stood few days.. I didnt touch anything clutch related at all.

 

New springs are coming just to rule out that, as these are a little longer than spec. for now I suspect clutch rather than anything else as it did it on and off before the engine removal.. Time will tell..

[Stu]

If the starter is not turning with it in gear and the clutch in and stand up then you have a switch stopping it somewhere 

[fastbob]

I am so confused here . I thought it was the wheel that wouldn't turn in gear with the clutch lever pulled in . Then it was stalling in gear , now the starter isn't cranking . So how was it starting before then ? 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

If the starter is not turning with it in gear and the clutch in and stand up then you have a switch stopping it somewhere 

That would be my understanding as well.

 

But then if it is also impossible, or at least very hard, to turn the rear wheel with it in gear and the clutch fully in there's a mechanical issue as well. A switch wouldn't affect that.

 

Hence my suggestion there is more than one thing going on.

 

Is there any about the Fazer starter that could link both effects?

[jedibiker]

41 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

That would be my understanding as well.

 

But then if it is also impossible, or at least very hard, to turn the rear wheel with it in gear and the clutch fully in there's a mechanical issue as well. A switch wouldn't affect that.

 

Hence my suggestion there is more than one thing going on.

 

Is there any about the Fazer starter that could link both effects?

I agree something mechanical like the clutch not disengaging. So looking at that.

 

@fastbob read what I put dude, starter wont turn with IT IN GEAR. starter is fine otherwise.

[fastbob]

3 hours ago, jedibiker said:

I agree something mechanical like the clutch not disengaging. So looking at that.

 

@fastbob read what I put dude, starter wont turn with IT IN GEAR. starter is fine otherwise.

But you wouldn't want the starter to turn it IN GEAR because if it fired up you could end up in a heap on the floor . 

[rightstuff]

Following this thread with interest but now totally confused if I lived nearer would pop round not saying I could fix it but I'm sure I could explain a bit clearer 

 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

22 minutes ago, fastbob said:

But you wouldn't want the starter to turn it IN GEAR because if it fired up you could end up in a heap on the floor . 

Which is why I asked about the starter system. On both mine the engine will fire if it's in gear so long as the clutch is pulled in. The reason being if you stall it you can get it going again quickly, at a junction for example.

 

It won't fire in gear if the clutch isn't pulled in for obvious reasons, that's when you end up in a heap.

[Ian Frog]

2 minutes ago, rightstuff said:

Following this thread with interest but now totally confused if I lived nearer would pop round not saying I could fix it but I'm sure I could explain a bit clearer 

 

His nearest neighbour on here is probably @dynax he seems a sensible chap.

Cheers

Ian

[dynax]

1 minute ago, Ian Frog said:

His nearest neighbour on here is probably @dynax he seems a sensible chap.

Cheers

Ian

 

Not sure what assistance I could give but I am free for most of tomorrow after I have done my shopping

[Ian Frog]

I am also very confused as to what is going on with what is essentially a simple system.

May I ask if you have tried putting the bike in gear and pulling the clutch lever in while being pushed along?

Forget starting the engine for the moment let`s try and establish if the mechanism is functioning.

If this can be done I would start to look at stand switches etc and if not I would suggest the clutch itself.

@fastbob please tell me if you can think of a simpler way?

Cheers

Ian

[Six30]

47 minutes ago, Ian Frog said:

His nearest neighbour on here is probably @dynax he seems a sensible chap.

Cheers

Ian