Bit of a crash this morning ..

[Fiddlesticks]

Busy staggered crossroads on an A road. Old guy in an suv looks left, looks right, locks eyes with the guy on the brand new BMW sports bike...

 

And pulls out!

 

BMW rider manages to scrub off most of his speed, which fortunately wasn't too high anyway. Probable impact speed circa 10-20mph. Enough to render the bike somewhat shorter, and leave the guy lying in the road.

 

I'm 4 cars back, people are looking after him, so I make myself useful and move the bike to the side of the road. And the thing starts talking to me. "We've called you an ambulance..." The future is here, folks.

 

Anyway, he comes round and he's OK. BMW assist are still trying to coordinate a rescue effort. Old bloke is pretty upset with himself and most apologetic. Witnesses exchange details. The crowd start to dissipate.

 

Turns out we work at the same place. Saw him later on and had a bit of an after action review. Conclusion: shit happens, wear your gear.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gerontious]

This is almost exactly what happened to me in the Black Forest. old fella looked directly at me as I was approaching and pulled out. I hit the side of his car and did an artistic somersault over his bonnet.

 

The police attended and put the blame squarely on him. he told them I was speeding but the evidence of their own eyes told a very different story.

 

Now.. something might have been lost in translation. The police weren't brilliant at English. (why should they be?) but they asked me if I wanted to prosecute the driver for "Attempted Murder" - They repeated this to the old fella and he looked like he was going to collapse.

 

I declined. the bike was a mess but I still managed to ride it home. And had the bike repaired. Sent a photo of the receipt to the old fellas insurance and the money was in my bank account 30 minutes later. (for the repair and bike hire)

 

The old fella sent me a Christmas card

[geofferz]

16 minutes ago, Gerontious said:

This is almost exactly what happened to me in the Black Forest. old fella looked directly at me as I was approaching and pulled out. I hit the side of his car and did an artistic somersault over his bonnet.

 

The police attended and put the blame squarely on him. he told them I was speeding but the evidence of their own eyes told a very different story.

 

Now.. something might have been lost in translation. The police weren't brilliant at English. (why should they be?) but they asked me if I wanted to prosecute the driver for "Attempted Murder" - They repeated this to the old fella and he looked like he was going to collapse.

 

I declined. the bike was a mess but I still managed to ride it home. And had the bike repaired. Sent a photo of the receipt to the old fellas insurance and the money was in my bank account 30 minutes later. (for the repair and bike hire)

 

The old fella sent me a Christmas card

What an excellent story. 

[Gerontious]

33 minutes ago, geofferz said:

What an excellent story. 

 

It was our first full day. for a change from the Eifel, we had instead gone to the Black Forest and were staying at Pension Williams at Seebach. This happened within an hour of leaving on the first day there. I left the guys to do their own thing and went off to the BMW dealership. Hired an F800GS. They told me the cost of a repair would be €4000. I laughed.

 

The actual cost was £900. the front wishbone had to be replaced as well as the front forks needed to be straightened and rechromed. the pointless 'beak' was never replaced. The bike hire was €400.

 

The old fella claimed in his Christmas card that the repair to his car was €20,000 seemed excessive to me, but it was a very nice car. A Merc I think.

 

Every year since Pension Williams send me an email with an offer. But, I have no desire to ever stay there again. The place is cursed.

 

The ride back was interesting. not really a problem having no front suspension on the French Toll. but once I left the tunnel for the ride up the M20/M25/M1. our cruddy roads took their toll. That last part was an absolute nightmare. I was so glad to get home.

 

Theres a reason why we only go to the Eifel now. And if I want to go elsewhere.. its never with the group. just one of the guys or alone.

[mealexme]

On 29/09/2023 at 14:12, Fiddlesticks said:

I'm 4 cars back, people are looking after him, so I make myself useful and move the bike to the side of the road. And the thing starts talking to me. "We've called you an ambulance..." The future is here, folks.

I've never ridden a bike new enough to have ABS and they've got bikes riding around with KITT on them now?!

[RideWithStyles]

Not quite but similar to old biddies falling over responding kits, it's not a bad idea really but does rely on upto date subscription and a phone signal.

[mealexme]

It's a good idea, but I'd be the idiot that gets an ambulance called out because I twisted my foot in a pot hole and dropped the bike haha

[Tiggie]

My Google watch has fall detection. If it detects a hard enough hit it will start beeping loudly for 60 seconds. If I don't switch it off it will alert emergency services.

 

 

 

[Bender]

2 hours ago, Tiggie said:

My Google watch has fall detection. If it detects a hard enough hit it will start beeping loudly for 60 seconds. If I don't switch it off it will alert emergency services.

 

 

 

Bet you know them all by first name

[megaross]

Christ I don't think I'd want that, I'm forever stacking it.

 

Just the other day I fell off the loft ladder, over the bannister on the landing and straight down the stairs. I'm so used to having big falls and somehow being fine other than bruising and the odd sprain and at worst a few cracked ribs (they always go - I've cracked them about 4 times in adulthood), I just got up and got in the loft.

[RideWithStyles]

Mr MegaBump

[Smighty]

I really do want for the law to change: if you are above 60yo, in order to keep your driving license (doesn't matter which one), get your health checked 2 times per year at least (mandatory).
A lot of people are in danger because we have tons of elderly (nothing against the elderly people, but someone who can barely see or hear, in my opinion is not capable of driving) people are participating in the traffic. Here, the driving license lasts for 10 years, so imagine that someone who was 64-5 took (renewed) a driving license and driving almost 10 years later without any health checks.

 

I am saying this because my colleague, in his 40's, died couple of days ago in a really similar accident (he was on a bike) and left a child and unemployed wife behind...

[S-Westerly]

I'm over 60 and I can't say I'm keen on this idea although I have to have an annual medical for my work. As to old drivers I agree there are some total half wits on the road but all my near misses have not involved older drivers. Opposite in fact.

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

4 hours ago, Smighty said:

I really do want for the law to change: if you are above 60yo, in order to keep your driving license (doesn't matter which one), get your health checked 2 times per year at least (mandatory).
A lot of people are in danger because we have tons of elderly (nothing against the elderly people, but someone who can barely see or hear, in my opinion is not capable of driving) people are participating in the traffic. Here, the driving license lasts for 10 years, so imagine that someone who was 64-5 took (renewed) a driving license and driving almost 10 years later without any health checks.

 

I am saying this because my colleague, in his 40's, died couple of days ago in a really similar accident (he was on a bike) and left a child and unemployed wife behind...

I am 62 and have been riding for many years. Medically I am no different than I was when I was 50 or 40. In fact my eyesight is better now than when I was 40. The law already requires someone with a medical condition to inform the DVLA no matter what age they are.

 

Most of the incidents I see on the roads are caused by people much younger than me, usually due to either inexperience or more often - lack of ability to control their impatience. 

[Smighty]

Don't get me wrong @Mississippi Bullfrog, I had no intentions of being rude. And I salute you for still riding and being in the shape you are.

I am just sharing the experience from the roads over here. So many times I've seen "grandpas" driving in the fast lanes on a highway below 50mph, grandmas (barely able to see) hitting cars and pedestrians at the parking lots... I will not go into any details, and I do completely agree that the main reason is lack of ability to control their impatience. But I still do think that above some (certain) age the medical checks for the driving licenses should be more frequent (less than every 10 years for sure).

Cheers and keep on riding.

[bonio]

I'd vote for a 5 yearly retest for all.

[RideWithStyles]

Im shying more with smighty, at least a proper medical would be safer for everyone and less what if or finger pointing, also might spot other health problems before they get worse saving the person and the nhs.

Westy you say for work...but for how much longer and would you bother after you retire? when aged problems are likely to show up but at a gradual way that you might not notice?

to put it another way if a proper health check includes capable to drive and you clear it then there will be no problem.

 

my notes are when someone goes 40 in a 60"because its too fast" but will do 40+ in a 30zone.

Maybe its the slightly younger generation trying to avoid wrinkles from crashing into them in the first place...joking of course.

 

anyway the reason a say this is even personal. my mother (now 70s but was in her mid to late 60s when i started to see whats up) who she and others thought was ok to drive.

when i was with her as passenger i got some spidey senses about her manner whike on the road, started asking questions like oh look at that or did you see that (in the distance and closer up) but would be in direct line of sight, well to cut it short very much like her vision! family thought i was just seeing things (as you two would as a older generation to me say im just a young shite to clear up after) anyway even the misses got a warning when she went through a pedestrian red light while our young daughter was in the back let alone the incident bystander he could have mullered and had proper denial about it...

Fast forward a year or so to eventually get it looked at when it couldn't be denied anymore, its serious cataract in both eyes.

 

Neighbours old guy nice chap bit of a rebel in the youth but the wife is the opposite, anyway to cut that story short it had taken the family and him two serious crashes to work it out within months of each other.
first accident two cars plus his had serious body damage in a 20 outside the house all he did was try turn one junction.
The last one written off 2cars including his own, a wall close to the house mulliered and heavily damaged two other cars but this time on the other side of the house in the 20zone, on a straight. Surprisingly he didn't kill some kid. His vision wasn't terrible (still not sure he would have passed) but capable he was certainly not.

 

my grandad bless is super scouser heart never had an accident but when he aged he had the correct mind set knew when he was not up for the task of driving "in todays traffic" he said about 20 years ago and didn't want to be the person to hurt or kill anyone, made the decision more difficult with disabled granma.

 

thats the thing it takes "the individual to submit it to the dvla" which is either just sight or missing body parts, wow how effective is that? who does that or doesn't know or want to do that? Hardly anyone case in point stated before.

i know a few near my age and below I wouldnt want to be in the same car as them let alone share the same tarmac is its not ageist, just not as old you or some other old people... but then again if i think about it maybe im just as old mentally but in denial? 

im in my 40s and I've noticed ive changed mentally and physically from when i was 30 and 20...

the young will still do stuff and capable of things faster but immaturity, lack of knowledge and experience is a primary problem thats called growing up .

even the old generation got up to some stunts the younger probably wouldn't do today. While stubborn and self righteous could be said to older if were gonna stereotype or pigeon hole things...

 

so this isn't a dig of the alf garnet lot , just a observation.

Edited October 10, 2023 by RideWithStyles

[rennie]

I have a huge problem with this!

 

I agree with both sides! 

 

I absolutely don't want to be a danger to myself or others!

I'm willing to undergo both eyesight and medical checks ( as long as being overweight doesn't count against me )

The checks/tests need to be free or at least a lot cheaper!

 

But!, I've worked all my life with retirement a far off dream!

They've decided I have to work even longer now!

 

If/when I finally do retire, with today's rules, I'll have 3 years before they start trying to take my entitlements off me!

That's simply not long enough!

[S-Westerly]

I've no issues with medicals per se but I really don't see the point of yet another layer of bureaucratic interference in my life. Obviously I'm not going to have an annual work related medical when I retire. Try and avoid the quack as much as possible anyway. More mandatory anything and I'm against it on principle. 

[Fiddlesticks]

Worth noting that driving licenses do expire when you're  70 years old, after which you have to self-declare fitness to drive every three years. Licenses can also be revoked on medical grounds. It's not foolproof, but as Thomas Sowell has noted, "there are no solutions, only trade-offs".

[Smighty]

@Fiddlesticks you are right. It is a bit different on that side of the world (luckily). Sometimes it sounds unrealistic to me that there are laws which actually make sense
Here, there is no age limit, as long as you are capable of driving (proven by medical checks). But still, licenses are renewed every 10 years which may be problematic. You can get a PSP category (bikes under 50cc) at the age of 16, A2 at the age of 18 i think, A1 at 21 and 24 for A.

 

And yes (don't get me started), there are "kids" around (18yo) on bikes that are well capable of reaching 100mph. The bottom line is: as long as you are driving to enjoy the ride and the machine (and not to be the fastest out there or behaving like the whole world spins around you), following the rules and regulations, adapting your ride to the driving conditions, you will drastically lower the chances of being "assembled" after the accident (or avoid one).
I do not know what the mentality in the UK is (but by the things you guys are writing, you are pretty much normal and on the spot) but here everyone, doesn't matter if they are old or young, think that they are the most capable and smartest out there, so they are behaving like that as well...which results in catastrophic crashes...

I am sorry for bring this up. I don't have any intentions to bring any dark thoughts or point fingers at anyone. It was just a debate, to see what other more experienced fellow bikers think about the general picture.

[billy sugger]

Just recently I've had a elderly gentleman come round a roundabout and through three sets of lights going the wrong way and heading for me, and an elderly lady on the A5 doing about 30 in a 50, then at a roundabout went round in the right hand lane then tried to change lane into the left one, in front of me, no indicators, only to have to swerve back over because she almost sideswiped a car already in that space. As soon as I could I overtook, only to have her move over on me and the way she was staring out the windscreen I don't think she could see properly 

[RideWithStyles]

The other problem which cannot be judged by a quick poke or glance by a gp is mental capacity..including confusion, misunderstanding, time and judgement...ive seen the effect of this has through step family and it's worrying when it qhas taken hold on the individual, the oblivion and potential consequences they can create.

[bonio]

On 11/10/2023 at 19:46, billy sugger said:

Just recently I've had a elderly gentleman come round a roundabout and through three sets of lights going the wrong way and heading for me...

Oh that's triggered a flash back. I was on the A380, a rollercoaster of a road, bendy and hilly, and a four-lane dual carriageway for 15 miles or so. In a lot of places you can't see the opposite carriageway, so it feels as if you're on a racetrack tucked among the hills of the South Hams.

We were off to my father-in-law's funeral, 10 years ago, the whole family in the car. The road is a good one so I was doing a steady 70 uphill on the inside lane, near one the summits, where you can't see so far ahead, when all of a sudden an old codger motors past me in the opposite direction, in the overtaking lane. And then in a split second he's gone, and we're over the top of the hill, and it's as if it never happened - except we all saw it. I wonder if he ever made it off that road alive. 

Still puts my pulse rate up to remember it, even now. 

[curlylegend]

13 hours ago, RideWithStyles said:

The other problem which cannot be judged by a quick poke or glance by a gp is mental capacity..including confusion, misunderstanding, time and judgement...ive seen the effect of this has through step family and it's worrying when it qhas taken hold on the individual, the oblivion and potential consequences they can create.

And how about sheer idiocy, which has no age limits at all ?