Changes to the sale of Petrol in the UK - Summer 2021

[Turbogirlie]

Hi,

 

Wasn't sure which part of the forum to post this, found via the M&P Instagram page tonight.  Doesn't bode well for older vehicles and the guidance is shockingly shite from the Government (no surprises there then...)

 

https://www.mandp.co.uk/workshop-tips-tricks/e10-petrol-explained-know-your-fuel

[Stu]

 

E5 is still available but will cost you more 

 

[gogs01]

Modern BMWs are ready for E15. …..  

[Stu]

9 minutes ago, gogs01 said:

Modern BMWs are ready for E15. …..  

 

I'm OK then

 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

I remember the when people predicted the millennium bug would wipe out global networks and destroy computers. I'll put off worrying until I've tried it.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mississippi Bullfrog

[Steve_M]

50 minutes ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

I remember the when people predicted the millennium bug would wipe out global networks and destroy computers. I'll put off worrying until I've tried it.

 

I remember how much work was put in to identifying, changing and testing programs that had poorly configured date formats to prevent it becoming an issue. I also remember a good bonus for working over the night of 31/12/1999 into 01/01/2000

[Bender]

11 minutes ago, Steve_M said:

I remember how much work was put in to identifying, changing and testing programs that had poorly configured date formats to prevent it becoming an issue. I also remember a good bonus for working over the night of 31/12/1999 into 01/01/2000

It was a hard night, we partied like it was 1999.

[bonio]

E10 is hardly new or untested. For years now it's all you can get in much of Europe. It's about time we followed suit.

 

[Turbogirlie]

2 minutes ago, bonio said:

E10 is hardly new or untested. For years now it's all you can get in much of Europe. It's about time we followed suit.

 

My bike is from 1982, my car 1985. If E5 is only available at limited outlets then I'm restricted on my travelling.  

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

3 minutes ago, bonio said:

E10 is hardly new or untested. For years now it's all you can get in much of Europe. It's about time we followed suit.

 

Ah, but if you read the Bobber forum, where most guys are American and therefore know what's what, they'll tell you that it's the end of the world and no motorcycle engine will run on it. 

 

The few members from Europe beg to differ of course, but what do they know?

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

1 minute ago, Turbogirlie said:

My bike is from 1982, my car 1985. If E5 is only available at limited outlets then I'm restricted on my travelling.  

You'll have no problem with E10 then. My last car was from 1972 and that coped with E5 no problem despite what the doom mongerers predicted. 

 

Many of the same people who warned that increased alcohol content would corrode fuel systems were the same people advocating adding meths to their petrol to absorb water. So long as the bike and car are used regularly it's not an issue.

[Marino]

On my odysseys across the Eu I used e10 mostly, it’s slightly cheaper. Consumption is slightly higher so probably I didn’t save a penny.

Only concern is when bike is not in use, as mine for several months, sometimes 6-7 months, maybe something can go wrong. But I use to empty the tank when I am leaving so shouldn’t  create any problem. 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

Thinking about this a bit later it struck me that it's relatively easy to remove the ethanol from petrol. Plenty of info on YouTube how to do it. You might want to use an octane booster afterwards to replace the octane lost by removing the ethanol.

[Six30]

result ... taking all the cars off the road in North Yorkshire..

[S-Westerly]

I tend to.use the.97 octane fuel anyway which is bloody expensive but wtf its only money.

[manxie49]

You can check if your vehicle will use E10 at the link below.  If I understand it correctly it’s mainly older vehicles that are going to have problems.  You could also have starting issues if your vehicle is left stood for long periods of time.  Apparently it doesn’t play well with plastic tanks and rubber seals as well.
 

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol

[S-Westerly]

Good reason for me not to use it as my bike is left for months at a time when I'm away and I like to fill the tank when I leave it.

[Davidtav]

I think we just need to try it and see what effect there actually is … as far as storage, surely if the tank is left full and sealed then the fuel cannot absorb water from the air?  Well that’s what I’m thinking. 

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, Davidtav said:

I think we just need to try it and see what effect there actually is … as far as storage, surely if the tank is left full and sealed then the fuel cannot absorb water from the air?  Well that’s what I’m thinking. 

 Air can still get in the tank through the vents and within air is moisture 

 

A tank is not sealed once closed 

[Mississippi Bullfrog]

It's still better to leave a tank full when not in use. It reduces the amount of airborne water vapour to fuel ratio. A tank is vented but other than expansion due to temperature changes there's relatively little air movement. Whether E10 will 'go off' more than E5 remains to be seen. I've known a few tanks left during lockdown for over a year that gave no problems when started. 

 

If in doubt, treat a few gallons to remove the ethanol and leave that in the tank over winter.

[manxie49]

 For those who leave them for periods of time I'm not sure if a fuel stabiliser would work or not? I have used E10 while on the continent with no problems, admittedly that was only for a couple of weeks though.  Bennetts did a review of E10 at this link:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2020/march/what-is-e10-fuel-and-is-it-safe

[Davidtav]

17 hours ago, Mississippi Bullfrog said:

 

If in doubt, treat a few gallons to remove the ethanol and leave that in the tank over winter.

I’m not sure that removing the ethanol is a good idea. I know that there are videos about how to do it online … but you aren’t going to be sure of what you are actually left with. Octane values and composition. I’m thinking there might be the risk of engine damage running a bike on an unknown quantity. Better to leave the bike full of some expensive E5 fuel instead. In my opinion … and it’s just a guess 

[Gerontious]

so much paranoia from owners of new bikes is extraordinary.

 

E10 is hardly new, in most of France its the only fuel you can buy... though i suppose you armchair chemists know more about it than companies like Shell. Mobil and so on. if there are any downsides to E10 aside from those already well publicised for older vehicles, I think its probably safe to assume that the oil companies will have already, long ago addressed these with the additive package that is present in all fuels.

 

There have been studies on this very subject. the amount of water that E10 can absorb in perfect conditions.. ie when water is directly added to the fuel rather than absorbed from the atmosphere is 0.41%

 

less than half of 1% of the total fuel in the tank. obviously this is the end of the world as we know it and we are all doomed.

 

Im in such a panic i think i might just be forced to lie down in a darkened room (for all of a minute) 

 

.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gerontious

[dynax]

I wouldn't worry over E10 it wasn't that long ago people were putting in E85 till it got discontinued over here, it is still widely used in other parts of the world though the majority of it in the USA

[S-Westerly]

My bike is quite happy to run on E10 but as previously said I prefer to run it on the 97 octane stuff. Probably fallen victim to Shell marketing. I leave it with the tank full because it seems a better option than leaving it empty and possibly getting corrosion in the tank.